FRONT HUB FELT SEALS

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Post by Dennis Nicholas » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:11 pm

BEWARE different felt seals and housings for front hubs if you are about to order. 6375/6376 will not fit 6a, b, SE8.
Just received felt/cups seals for my GTC from Graham Walkers.....I did specify for GTC. Wrong type sent....they are much too thick and inner diameter too small to fit over shoulder of vertical link. Invoice shows part number 6375 which is the cup that fits in the hub...its associated felt is 6376. GW parts catalogue shows these parts as "all models". WRONG. Think they are only for 5/5a?? The later vertical link had a "cup inner bearing", item 13 in drawing but not listed,(think should have been called "spacer") which fits over shoulder on vertical link giving larger diameter for felt seal to fit over.....later vertical links have shoulder machined on which is larger diameter same as cup inner bearing so does not need the "cup inner bearing" (spacer) and the later felt fits direct over this.

Called GW and explained and parts man was not aware of all this (we have sold X hundred of 6375/6376....etc.). I suggested they need to alter the parts list he is working from. He suggested I return items and they would see what they can do. Must admit I am surprised they have not got an up to date list after all this time. Perhaps they will now have found another bin with the right bits and will amend their parts list.

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Post by scimjim » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:09 pm

I think the change was during 6a production, not 5a/6 difference.


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Post by halfpenny » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:23 pm

5a small diameter stubs certainly take a smaller felt seal than the larger stubs ( because the vertical links have a different diameter shoulder)



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Post by halfpenny » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:12 am

My record shows 5a grease seals have an o/d of 2.1". Small i/d (= vertical link boss o/d) was 1.375 "; large i/d was 1.5". I guess a spacer could be fitted to grow the smaller boss, but mine had a smaller i/d felt seal (ie no spacer), so two sizes were clearly available.



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Post by Roger Pennington » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:03 am

Are we actually talking about the same changes here? AFAIK within Se5/5a production there was a change to stub axle diameter (not sure over how much of the length it applied?). Then during Se6-on production there was a change to the profile of the upright/vertical link, on the surface adjacent to the stub axle?


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Post by philhoward » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:39 am

I assume it's the profile ( so during SE6-series production) on the mating surface as that's where the felt seal goes?


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Post by halfpenny » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:00 pm

My observation was that a smaller 5a stub axle had a vertical link with small diameter felt seal shoulder. The replacement larger stub axle assembly had a larger diameter seal shoulder. Both seemed to be original assemblies. So not all vertical links are equal, at least so far as the diameter of the seal shoulder is concerned.
Last edited by halfpenny on Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post by scimjim » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:53 pm

Yep, confusing the two changes that occurred at different times during production - the stub axle doesn’t have a shoulder for the seal, it’s part of the upright.


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Post by Dennis Nicholas » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:46 pm

UNHAPY WITH GW.
The spares man got me to phone back next day to talk to a "man that knows" (dave?). I explained to that man that they had returned to me the wrong felt seals and that as my letter showing them photos of the 2 types to them showed, the correct ones were thinner and had a larger I/D so they were a nice fit over the vertical link shoulder and that what they sent, again, were the earlier 5/5a smaller I/D and much thicker. His response was that there was only one part number and that they fitted all models.....we have the owners of Reliant and have sole rights.......etc. I tried to reason that this was wrong but he insisted that that was what they fitted to all customers cars!!! I even pointed out that QRG supplied the correct size (but only do them in a full bearing/seal/nut/split pin kit)
I asked how they fitted the seal and the reply was that the felt was very compliant and that it could be forced on!!!! I am now about to return the seals for a refund. Shame so adamant about something so obviously wrong.

Out of interest has anyone on here gone down this road of forcing these wrong seals onto vertical links and having to considerably squash them down to size to get the hub back near the vertical link where it should be? I can see one could possibly force the felt over the larger shoulder with the seal out of the hub and VL in vice, but with seal in hub and VL on car I visualise great difficulty if it is at all possible and would think the felt will get trapped/damaged between hub and shoulder and will be under a great deal of forced pressure to squeeze it thinner.

here again is the photo of the two seals...1 being the correct, 2 being the wrong.
DSCF1082.jpg
DSCF1082.jpg (432.38 KiB) Viewed 604 times

DSCF1083.jpg
DSCF1083.jpg (247.95 KiB) Viewed 604 times
I would have thought Graham would most likely know about the difference so it is a bit sad his staff can at times be so unaware and adamant.
Does anyone know of a DEFINITE replacement that can be had on its own.....i.e. a Triumph part?

Dennis


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Post by Dennis Nicholas » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:59 pm

Here is Vertical link with sizes.
VERTICAL LINK GTC.jpg
VERTICAL LINK GTC.jpg (221.95 KiB) Viewed 601 times


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Post by JoeySully » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:54 pm

I doubt you can force it and set the wheel bearing correctly. The brake caliper is unlikely to line up with the disk too.



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Post by ard126k » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:48 pm

The bearing has to be first set without the seal fitted, the hub nut and axle marked and then reset to the marks after installing the seal. But I agree that an undersize seal is likely to get nipped somewhere along the line.
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Post by Dennis Nicholas » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:23 pm

Yes I could see how one could set 3 thou bearing end float that way BUT consider this: GW felt 12mm; correct felt 8mm.
I just happen to have a 19.5 kilo weight lying around and put that on a plate of hardboard on the GW seal and it compressed it about 2.3mm and there was still a gap of around 1.7mm above the correct felt. I don't know what the graph of squash against force for the felt would be but guess at a curve so even more force to squash a further 1.7mm.
Just consider that force is pushing the hub outwards and so preloading the bearing.
That works out around 8.47 kilo force to squash 1 mm. Even allowing for a strait line graph that 1.7mm requires an extra 14.41 kilos. So that would be around 33.9 kilos in total preloading the bearing (assuming strait line - kilo/distance graph). That is around 74.7 pounds loading!
I would not like my bearings to start life with that handicap :)

Just out of interest does anyone have the gear to squash one down in a controlled way to correct thickness to give us a more accurate coefficient of squishyness :wink:

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Post by scimjim » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:45 pm

It’s felt.

Surely 30 seconds with a scalpel will fix it?


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SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

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Post by derekoss » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:25 pm

Dennis you are splitting hairs worrying about a 70lb axial loading (pre or otherwise) on those bearings. That assuming the felt didn't crush over time in any event.
The side load capability on corners will be measured in tons !

Derek



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