Sabre Six exhaust system

Post by **chrisgallacher** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:26 am

...and the collection of photos on the FIA form aren't all from the same car either. The papers are for a Sabre Six, but 7 EUE in the main photo is a Sabre Four.

You can just imagine the rush on the part of Reliant to get the paperwork lodged on time when all their relatively meagre resources were focussed on getting the cars & support crews etc prepped for competition.

Post by **Sabreite** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:16 pm

Hi All, just to join in the discussion. I have looked through the photos I have on the works cars, but have not come up with anything to help on the tubular branch manifold evidence. Chris G has already said, the FIA papers for the Six show 7EUE one of the Sabre 4 works cars external and interior photos are not a Sabre 6, so not necessarily accurate spec for what they ran on all the rallies. I have attached photos of the works cars being prepped for the 64 Monte, these show the long studs that would take the cast manifold, also one photo pre Monte (8th Jan 1964), showing the cast manifold fitted also photo of 660 XYB as per Dons book page 61, BUT no engine at all so not a lot of help so far!

Post by **Sabreite** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:23 pm

Sorry the Sabre Six Homologation page will not upload not sure why it is 7.9 MB so maybe too big will see if I can sort it but if not I think you have all seen it anyway

Post by **scimjim** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:31 pm

link in my post on previous page.

Post by **Old and Slow** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:00 pm

Jim,
Just to let you know the link worked OK for me, better quality than the photocopy I have in the 660XYB ring binder.
Terry Rickard told me he has an incomplete set of notes written by the Reliant competitions manager - perhaps he'll see if there's anything relevant to this quest.
The search goes on...

Post by **DavePoole** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:05 pm

Hi Philip,

I've spoken to another Sabre expert tonight, who says 660 XYB did only have a cast manifold originally. A previous owner fitted the Raymond Mays head and tubular manifolds

Cheers

Dave Poole

Post by **chrisgallacher** » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:28 pm

Dave, did you establish which car and what event is shown in the top photo you posted on p1 of this thread? If we knew that for sure, and it was still in the hands of Reliant as a works entry at the time of the photo, that would assist greatly.

I guessed it was 649 GUE after it crashed on the '64 Monte, but maybe it wasn't?

Post by **DavePoole** » Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:42 am

chrisgallacher wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:28 pm
Dave, did you establish which car and what event is shown in the top photo you posted on p1 of this thread? If we knew that for sure, and it was still in the hands of Reliant as a works entry at the time of the photo, that would assist greatly.

I guessed it was 649 GUE after it crashed on the '64 Monte, but maybe it wasn't?

Hi,

Yes, sadly that was a bit of a red herring

I've since found out that crashed Sabre photos were taken after Robin Rew bought it circa 1977. Dave Womack can confirm that, as he supplied the photos.

Cheers

Dave Poole

Post by **chrisgallacher** » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:18 am

Ah ok got it, thanks

Fascinating stuff this detective work, as Philip says.

Post by **Old and Slow** » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:33 pm

Dave,
Tony Heath emailed to say both Richard Wos and Neil Condliffe did a lot of research to meet the FIA Appendix K and both raced with the cast manifolds.
However, on your Sporting Reliants website you have a "Motorsport History" section which covers the Le Mans prototype 876HWD.
More importantly you have a photograph of the modified engine which I believe is earlier than the photo that appears on p56 of TSAIF and also on p57 of RSC.
I'm clutching at straws here, but also on P56 of TSAIF the activities of "Wilkie" Wilkinson from BRM tuning the carbs are described. I believe BRM would have already been using tubular exhausts so this could have been the moment the change from cast manifolds was made, for the Spa-Sofia_Liege Marathon. After the rally Raymond Baxter wrote to say "....the engine itself was certainly the finest I have ever handled in any competition."
Can you date your photo?
BTW when you release your new website I'll provide you with some later stuff on 660XYB.
Cheers,
Philip N

Post by **Sabreite** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:20 am

Hi All not sure if this will help on you quest to establish tubular manifolds date usage, here are two photos of Argyle Motors racing Sabre 4's using 4cyl Mays Head with tubular manifolds. These I am sure were supplied to them by Reliant as I have copies of some correspondence from Argyle Motors to Reliant requesting some spares for the Mays head. If you look at the tax disk date this proves the time of use, I am sure between us all we could establish what races these cars were used in at the time. Cheers John V

: Argyle Motors Comperition Sabres photo B.jpg (190.12 KiB) Viewed 1970 times

: Argyle Motors Comperition Sabres 1.jpg (182.37 KiB) Viewed 1970 times

Post by **Old and Slow** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:23 pm

Those Sabre 4 pictures are good. And can we assume the car was taxed for 12 months, expiring in 1964, so a 1963 modification?
As you say, what racing history can be established? I don't know where to look, but I'd guess the archivist side of Dave would know.
Philip N

Post by **scimjim** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:10 pm

I think the one with the bonnet up is NCM260 - at least, there's a red, August 62, 1703cc Reliant with that reg on the DVLA database.

Post by **Old and Slow** » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:39 pm

Presumably Argyle Motors were one of the Reliant distributors who competed under their own name.
I've briefly searched the Motor Sport archive, there's mention of Raymond Baxter in the 1964 RAC Rally, but nothing comes up for Argyle, apart from references to the vintage car of that name.

In the words of U2 - still haven't found what I'm looking for.

Post by **Roger Pennington** » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:59 am

Argyle Motors, as the name suggests, were in Birkenhead (!), and AFAIK were Reliant dealers "back in the day"