Replacement door speakers

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Replacement door speakers

Post by Diyhell » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:14 am

drcdb15 wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:59 pm
I thought the whole point of the Scim was to listen to the V6 rumble .. ?
True...but I try and drown out the sound of the axle rumbling!


SE6a needing lots of work...

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Replacement door speakers

Post by drcdb15 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:24 pm

May I please thank everyone on here who has contributed to this thread and not only answered my original query but also (as always!) educated me and amused me along the way. I have now ordered a pair of replacement JBL speakers, and learned that I also need to look at the rear speakers in due course.

:clap:


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Replacement door speakers

Post by drcdb15 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:15 pm

It's been a while but at long last I have got around to looking at the rear speakers. First question was, where are they?

In another post I asked whether MB had fitted 6 speakers rather than 4 as I found two grilles at the rear of the car but also had two by the rear seat armrests. Now knowing my speakers would be trash anyway, probing with a long fine pin through the grilles would not cause any unwanted damage. Said probing revealed that there are no speakers by the rear seats - just grilles over holes in the panels. Anyone know why MB switched to putting the rear speakers in the back panel? It certainly makes access a lot easier, but I'm not at all sure the luggage zone is a sensible place to put speakers (though Jag do it in their estates I notice). Earlier in this thread Andrew said on MB60 he had front speakers mounted on the door cards, and the rears on the trim panel. Phil said using the door cards and spire nuts etc was hardly likely given MB's empasis on quality. My rear speakers are not on the trim panel, but on the access panels (44 and 45 in drawing R3 of the MB parts list, which don't show any speaker holes). Taking all of this together, I can't help but wonder if MB started off with good intentions and followed best practice, but as they got nearer the end of production when it was clear the company was dying, they started to cut corners and adopt a 'shove-it-in-anywhere-and-cover-it-up' approach. Well, that's one for the historians (Mick G, are you there ? :)

Anyway, first point sorted - only 4 speakers. Sure enough, the rears were just as trashed as the fronts. One query: I notice the rears are rated as 25W whilst the fronts were 50W. If these are OE speakers, what's the significance in the different ratings? Did the OE audio head have different power outputs for front and rear ? I don't recall ever reading anything to that effect.

Next question: after the debate about whether or not MB mounted the front speakers on the door card or in the door proper, I find my rears have been mounted on hardboard. My first thought was this is a typical Reliant bodge, but then I wonder... is this actually reasonable acoustic practice to absorb unwanted vibration from the speaker or caused by the cavity in the bodywork? Thoughts welcomed.

That aside, It is also clear that the long panel for the nearside has been cut short to butt against the rear wiper motor panel, and the offcut end has been used to bridge a circular hole that looks as if it was originally used to house a circular 5 inch speaker.

So, are these panels OE? They have all the hallmarks of a DIY bodge, but then the speakers themselves look to match the fronts, so they seem to be OE. Would a PO really remove the OE speakers from the OE panels, then fit his own panels and re-fit the OE speakers? Seems pretty unlikely. But if OE panels, what's the 5" hole doing there, and only on one side? Any thoughts as to what if any of this is OE and what is PO bodge welcomed, plus:

Should I continue to use the hardboard panels, or is there a better material to use?

Incidentally, I have already ordered two more JBLs the same as for the doors, so please don't tell me now to use different new units!
Note to mods: would it be useful to delete 'door' from the title of this thread?

As always, my thanks for your thoughts and advice. Here are the pix:
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Replacement door speakers

Post by ScimmyMike » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:41 am

By the side of the rear seats is the best place for them Chris, rear panel just won't create adequate bass, I managed to install a set of 165mm component speakers into my 6b in the area that's above the rear side armrest then I had to drill many holes thought to allow sound out, the MB may have speaker grills in there the 6b didn't, means taking the side panels below windows out and fixing speakers to the body, don't just fix to the panels they aren't strong enough really and you'll lose sound quality, worth the effort I thought, JBL's are decent speakers, I have them in my daily driver to replace the carp pioneer original fit items


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Post by Roger Pennington » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:56 am

ScimmyMike wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:41 am
I managed to install a set of 165mm component speakers into my 6b in the area that's above the rear side armrest then I had to drill many holes thought to allow sound out, the MB may have speaker grills in there the 6b didn't,
Depends which stereo system you specified - if you opted for the top-of-the-range Phillips 4-speaker system, (which was available at least as early as the later 6as), then the rear speakers were fitted in the "alcove" in the rear side panel, above the armrest. My car has speakers in that position, and they are shown in the parts manual (Section W :wink: ). I believe the space in that position is quite restricted though, so it may be that MB wanted to fit bigger speakers, and put them in the rear panel because they fitted?


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Replacement door speakers

Post by drcdb15 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:05 pm

ScimmyMike wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:41 am
By the side of the rear seats is the best place for them
Well I'd have thought so too, but sadly that isn't a practical proposition for me at present.
Roger Pennington wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:56 am
it may be that MB wanted to fit bigger speakers, and put them in the rear panel because they fitted?
Judging by the wiring which all seems the correct colour codes, with the right crimped on connectors etc, this position for the rear speakers seems to be OE (for better or worse, at least for MB61).

Thanks for all your comments so far folks. But my main question is, is the hardboard OE, and should I keep on using it?


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Replacement door speakers

Post by Roger Pennington » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:13 pm

drcdb15 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:05 pm
But my main question is, is the hardboard OE, and should I keep on using it?
From memory, it looks like the water-stained hardboard in mine (though I think mine may have some foam insulation stuck to the back, but it's a while since I looked)


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Replacement door speakers

Post by drcdb15 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:26 pm

Roger Pennington wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:13 pm
drcdb15 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:05 pm
But my main question is, is the hardboard OE, and should I keep on using it?
From memory, it looks like the water-stained hardboard in mine (though I think mine may have some foam insulation stuck to the back, but it's a while since I looked)
Thanks Roger - so you think the hardboard is good old Reliant make-do-and-mend, then ? When next I am told about how Morgans are built on an ash frame, I'll remark "of course, Middlebridge use a fair amount of wood too..." :lol:


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Replacement door speakers

Post by drcdb15 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:18 pm

Djangoz wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:33 pm
I used JBL Harmann Stage 6402 6" by 4" 105W two way coaxial elliptical speakers
I'm just working on the front speakers now, the rear ones having been protracted to put it mildly, mainly as I ditched the original hardboard panels mish mash and made up new panels from plywood. The fronts are MUCH more straighforward. I am just wondering what to do about the felt/fibre dust cover panel that sits under the metal outer grille? The rear ones on my car were just dust, so I left them out, but the front ones are quite serviceable, so I don't know whether to keep them or not. I presume originally they were fitted to keep dust out of the rather delicate paper cones, but with the 6402s having much more robust plastic and rubber construction I wonder if they are still needed. The metal grilles are louvred, so that when they are placed landscape (as at the rear) the grille openings can face either up or down. Facing down of course should inhibit dust ingress. But when they are portrait, as in the doors, this measure of duct protection is absent.


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Replacement door speakers

Post by Djangoz » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:04 pm

Chris - mine were pretty much dust both front and rear. I'm afraid I just omitted them on reassembly - no downside noted yet! Sorry your not at Silverstone this weekend- would have liked to meet you and see G1 GTE on your car.


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Replacement door speakers

Post by AJL Electronics » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:25 pm

They may be seals to preserve the 'infinite baffle'.


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Post by Djangoz » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:29 pm

From memory I believe they were very thin gauze - presumably acoustically transparent - primarily as dust protectors?


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Replacement door speakers

Post by drcdb15 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:08 am

Thanks for your comments, folks - more trials in progress....


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