Rear anti-roll bar upside down?

Topics related solely to the Middlebridge Scimitars

Moderators: scimjim, philhoward, erikscimitardemon, Roger Pennington, Lukeyboy46

User avatar
Corky
RSSOC Member
Posts: 10309
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:02 am
Location: Macclesfield
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Re: Rear anti-roll bar upside down?

Post by Corky » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:23 am

simmit wrote:
Roger Pennington wrote:The longer link in Will's photos looks very low - lower even than the exhaust - so they may have found it was too vulnerable? It doesn't look as though it would need to be as short as the short one, though, just to ensure it doesn't stick below the chassis?
Good point and it does look as though end of the MB14 ARB may have had a clout at some time.

Unfortunately, any shortening at all of the long link is taking us back to the problem. Can we devise a better arrangement?

For what it costs I'm thinking of trying Corkys suggestion:- "The longer link looks like the SS1/Chevette/GM one. Used on lots of cars and available from around £12 a pair. They're easy to shorten if need be." If I do give it a try then I'll fit the centre bolts t'other way up (bolt heads to the bottom and free thread at the top) which should give another inch or so ground clearance.
The drop link on the left is a standard SS1/Chevette link, the next one along is from a Daewoo (Nexia I think. very cheap nowadays, as there's not a lot of demand :lol: ) . Then on the right of the photo is the polybush kit with part number SPF2092BK. As I say, the links are very easily shortened to the desired length. You may need a die nut to extend the bolt thread though.

Image


Steve
Current:- SS1 Ti RG sprint car. VW Touareg 3.0 V6
Prev:- Sabre Ti, 3xSS1 Ti, SS1 16v Turbo Racer, 5XGTC, 2XSE6B, 2XSE5A, 2XV6 Coupe, Sabre 6
Project Threads & YouTube

“It's not the winning, it's the taking apart that counts"

simmit
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:33 pm
Has thanked: 117 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Rear anti-roll bar upside down?

Post by simmit » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:54 am

peter freeman wrote:I did suggest to my MOT man that I could just take it off and revert the car to as was originally but he said that the car was built with it on so it should be retained - another "grey" area as MOT details tend to be.
Can't see any court in the land taking a different view to your MOT man and it is a fact that many other countries do take a much stronger line on such things (German TUV for certain wouldn't entertain it at any price). Following an accident abroad, if such unauthorised ARB removal were discovered it would probably earn you a long stay in the lock-up. And of course you would be bankrupt to boot on account of no insurance cover.

I'd say, think long and hard about taking an MB abroad it it hasn't got it's ARB firmly attached.



simmit
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:33 pm
Has thanked: 117 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Rear anti-roll bar upside down?

Post by simmit » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:09 am

Thanks Corky.

To determine best option and check ground clearance, do you have comparative measurement of spacer tube lengths (between bushes) for SS1/Chevette Daewoo links?

Poly bush reference is useful. Do you have a preferred supplier for these parts or is it eBay trawl?



User avatar
Corky
RSSOC Member
Posts: 10309
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:02 am
Location: Macclesfield
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Re: Rear anti-roll bar upside down?

Post by Corky » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:21 am

If you click on the part number above, it should take you to the cheapest vendor on eBay for that Super-Pro kit. Just check that the supplier is sending 8 X bushes, as some car models only use 4.

QRG price is £24 + P&P, eBay price is around £17 delivered.

I don't know the lengths of the tubes, but I can measure them and get back to you.


Steve
Current:- SS1 Ti RG sprint car. VW Touareg 3.0 V6
Prev:- Sabre Ti, 3xSS1 Ti, SS1 16v Turbo Racer, 5XGTC, 2XSE6B, 2XSE5A, 2XV6 Coupe, Sabre 6
Project Threads & YouTube

“It's not the winning, it's the taking apart that counts"

simmit
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:33 pm
Has thanked: 117 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Rear anti-roll bar upside down?

Post by simmit » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:56 am

Corky wrote:If you click on the part number above, it should take you to the cheapest vendor on eBay for that Super-Pro kit. Just check that the supplier is sending 8 X bushes, as some car models only use 4.

QRG price is £24 + P&P, eBay price is around £17 delivered.

I don't know the lengths of the tubes, but I can measure them and get back to you.
Much appreciated.



User avatar
peter freeman
RSSOC Member
Posts: 9075
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:12 pm
Location: Newcastle
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 280 times
Contact:

Re: Rear anti-roll bar upside down?

Post by peter freeman » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:08 pm

Just put my winter wheels/tyres back on and had a look at the links while doing it. The bolts are still straight and I think the poly bushes will last another year.



ronnie
Banned User
Posts: 883
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:38 pm
Location: Lanarks,Scotland
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: Rear anti-roll bar upside down?

Post by ronnie » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:59 pm

Will Anderson wrote:As promised, photos of MB14 and MB46 drop links.
MB14
Image
MB46
Image
Let us examine these two different droplinks and determine which is correct.
One of them long and the other short
One has the rollbar level
One has it pointing upwards
One has possible ground clearance issues whereas the other does not.




I have already mentioned that the Short link is not correct or as the post heading states the bar is upside down which gives the severe upward angle of the rollbar.

The ARB's in the photos have horizontal mashed ends with a plain hole (not threaded or tapered) by the look of things. This is then fitted to a pin ended droplink which fastens via a pair of pad bushes, compression washers and a compression nut. The idea is that the ARB end hole and droplink rod diameters are such that the bar can articulate without the pin contacting the hole and bending at extremes of travel. This is clearly happened with the short link, and not with the long link. The reason the short link is bent is that it has pulled the bar ends up at static ride height, using up all the slack in the bar end hole. This allows the pin to jam in the bar resulting in the damage shown. What you require is a bar end that sits near to horizontal with a vertical pin so that at static ride height the angle between the pin and mashed end is near to 90 degrees. This will allow greatest articulation in both suspension compression and extension, however a bit of adjustment may be required to get angles, clearances, etc, correct for individual vehicles depending upon wheel diameters, tyre diameters, springs, ride heights, etc.

So given the two photos, the longer rod looks to be more correct. It is common for droplinks of this type to be bent with today's curbs and potholes.



simmit
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:33 pm
Has thanked: 117 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Rear anti-roll bar upside down?

Post by simmit » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:51 pm

peter freeman wrote:Just put my winter wheels/tyres back on and had a look at the links while doing it. The bolts are still straight and I think the poly bushes will last another year.
Hi Peter.
It would be useful to know what sort of mileage per year your car does. Plainly, a car that hardly turns a wheel from one year to the next is no indicator.



User avatar
peter freeman
RSSOC Member
Posts: 9075
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:12 pm
Location: Newcastle
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 280 times
Contact:

Re: Rear anti-roll bar upside down?

Post by peter freeman » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:58 pm

Done about 10k since the poly links were fitted - not a great mileage but 4 years.



User avatar
petermisy
RIP
Posts: 483
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:21 pm
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Rear anti-roll bar upside down?

Post by petermisy » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:23 pm

greeny wrote:
petermisy wrote:One of my GTC's has an anti-roll bar, can definitely notice the difference when driving one after the other.
Could some of that not be shocks Peter?
Yes could be, one has Koni Classics (with the ARB) the other has Spax. It just feels like the one with the ARB is stiffer at the rear when cornering.

Peter


GTC Prototype XJW 247T
GTC No. 381 A381 GTC (was A24 EPB)
MGB GT 1971 EPE 838J (project)

2016 Ford Galaxy Titanium X 180bhp
Ford Transit Connect van
2016 Bailey Pegasus Verona Caravan

User avatar
Old and Slow
RSSOC Member
Posts: 656
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:37 pm
Location: East Berks
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: Rear anti-roll bar upside down?

Post by Old and Slow » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:50 pm

IMO I think you can dismiss the issue of "fitting the arb upside down" as theoretically there's little or no difference between the upper and lower faces, and the horizontal-ness or upward-sloping-ness of the ends is entirely due to the drop link lengths. The arb should pivot fairly easily in the chassis mounts (with drop-links disconnected);the arb is only ever stressed when one wheel either bumps or droops.
I think the drop-link length can be determined by ensuring the arms are horizontal when the suspension is at rest; movement up and down will then result in an arc that introduces the minimum of bending forces on the drop links.


Philip Needham
Ashley-bodied TR3; '54 Ford Consul; '55 AC 2-Litre Saloon;'65 850 Mini; '70 Ford Zodiac MkIV; XR3i
'81 911SC Targa, '64 Sabre Six

simmit
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:33 pm
Has thanked: 117 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Rear anti-roll bar upside down?

Post by simmit » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:33 pm

I've opted for Chevette drop link (thanks Corky) fitted with ARB bent ends facing upwards (as I found it). Drop link spacer tube in my original set-up measured 30mm whereas the Chevette spacer now fitted has 75mm length. I fitted the through bolt with its head at the bottom and find with suspension in neutral position it does not hang lower than the chassis so shouldn't present a ground clearance problem.

It will take time but if a problem arises I'll post an update.



Post Reply

Return to “Middlebridge”