Tr7 V8 Megajolt

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Post by manny » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:05 pm

Good day all,

finally after 5 years!! my TR is now road legal once more...so i thought i would have a go at installing Megajolt...i got some weird results.
I tested the setup by running the odd cylinders from the existing ignition setup and the even from the EDIS without the ECU....the videos show i get spark only when the crank sensor is not in line with the trigger wheel... must be the crank sensor ( new 1 week old!)

..eh?

..eh???
any help appreciated

Ta

Manny



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Post by philhoward » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:39 pm

Have you got an EDIS 4 or EDIS 8, and where’s your sensor (degrees BTDC)?


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Post by manny » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:47 pm

philhoward wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:39 pm
Have you got an EDIS 4 or EDIS 8, and where’s your sensor (degrees BTDC)?
Aologies ..EDIS8 and the missing tooth is 50 BTDC...
as the videos show ..the setup does seem to fire but the sensor alignment makes no sense..

I used the wiki to set up the wheel and sensor position
The coil packs show 0.5 Ohms on the primaries and 13K on the secondaries
In the second video you can (just)hear the engine fire on all cylinders with the two different ignition systems when i move the sensor off its suggested alignment..

Ta

Manny
Last edited by manny on Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Post by philhoward » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:57 pm

It’ll only produce sparks when the sensor sees all 35 teeth. I couldn’t see the actual alignment as the engine is running ?

This is a 4 cylinder but sensor and trigger wheel are still the same:
1E4B8F23-2F60-4EB7-A3EC-80C4FF08D8D9.jpeg
1E4B8F23-2F60-4EB7-A3EC-80C4FF08D8D9.jpeg (379.79 KiB) Viewed 428 times


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Post by manny » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:06 pm

philhoward wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:57 pm
It’ll only produce sparks when the sensor sees all 35 teeth. I couldn’t see the actual alignment as the engine is running ?

...
When the sensor is aligned as in your picture..i get no sparks....but if i move the sensor so it moves above ( ref your pic) the face of the wheel a few mm..i get sparks...
So it appears to 'trigger' only when i offset the sensor to the wheel..almost as if the sensing magnet is at the side of the housing and not on the flat face of the sensor.
All voltages seem as expected and i do get the coil packs sparking.
The sensor is as advertised for a focus Zetec..

Ta

Manny



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Post by Old and Slow » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:24 pm

You might be getting magnetic "saturation" in the sensor, picking up the teeth and the body of the wheel itself - can you increase the gap between the wheel and the sensor and see if this makes a difference? Just an idea, I've never had electronic timing, myself.


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Post by philhoward » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:51 am

Which Focus Zetec?...1.8 or 2.0 I assume?


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Post by manny » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:29 am

Old and Slow wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:24 pm
You might be getting magnetic "saturation" in the sensor, picking up the teeth and the body of the wheel itself - can you increase the gap between the wheel and the sensor and see if this makes a difference? Just an idea, I've never had electronic timing, myself.
I will try that...but the installation guides ( https://wiki.autosportlabs.com/MJLJ_V4_ ... tion_guide) does state a gap of 1mm or less in the troubleshooting guide..

Ta

Manny



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Post by manny » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:29 am

philhoward wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:51 am
Which Focus Zetec?...1.8 or 2.0 I assume?
yes..listed as for 1.8 Zetec.

Ta

Manny



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Post by scimjim » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:46 am

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think that (a) if the sensor fails (or fails to pick up a signal) then the EDIS will default to 10 deg BTDC and (b) if it’s connected up the wrong way round, it throws the EDIS and you won’t get a spark?


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Post by manny » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:58 am

scimjim wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:46 am
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think that (a) if the sensor fails (or fails to pick up a signal) then the EDIS will default to 10 deg BTDC and (b) if it’s connected up the wrong way round, it throws the EDIS and you won’t get a spark?
That is correct...but if a sensor completely fails ...how does the EDIS fire at BTDC ...it must have some reference? or is it hard coded into the module?
The kit i obtained was on a mud plugger Land Rover, wired correctly when referencing the EDIS connector and i had continuity between the EDIS connector pins and all other connectors etc.
As i do get a spark the sensor must be producing a trigger signal for the EDIS to fire the coil packs....it's just odd.
I have ordered another sensor as they are relatively cheap and i do have a spare EDIS8 module as well...

confused

Manny



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Post by AndyKing » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:13 am

I notice the trigger wheel is fairly close to the pulley. It maybe picking up the signal from the pulley, if the diameter of the trigger wheel (measured on the bottom of the teeth) isn't larger than the pulley. I couldn't tell if this was the case or not from the video.

I found that the ford sensors seemed to prefer quite a thick trigger wheel (5mm) compared with the Vauxhall one I've previously used.

Another thing to check is the polarity of the sensor, despite what the manuals say, they do work wrongly connected, just produce the wrong waveform.



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Post by manny » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:18 am

AndyKing wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:13 am
I notice the trigger wheel is fairly close to the pulley. It maybe picking up the signal from the pulley, if the diameter of the trigger wheel (measured on the bottom of the teeth) isn't larger than the pulley. I couldn't tell if this was the case or not from the video.

I found that the ford sensors seemed to prefer quite a thick trigger wheel (5mm) compared with the Vauxhall one I've previously used.

Another thing to check is the polarity of the sensor, despite what the manuals say, they do work wrongly connected, just produce the wrong waveform.
ooh good call....i will add some spacers ....nice suggestion!

Ta

Manny



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Post by scimjim » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:03 am

manny wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:58 am
scimjim wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:46 am
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think that (a) if the sensor fails (or fails to pick up a signal) then the EDIS will default to 10 deg BTDC and (b) if it’s connected up the wrong way round, it throws the EDIS and you won’t get a spark?
That is correct...but if a sensor completely fails ...how does the EDIS fire at BTDC ...it must have some reference? or is it hard coded into the module?

As i do get a spark the sensor must be producing a trigger signal for the EDIS to fire the coil packs....it's just odd.
Yes, the EDIS is hard coded to fire at 10 deg BTDC as a “get you home” feature.

My sensor certainly didn’t work when the polarity was reversed and a million google hits suggests this is a common problem?

My point was - when you move the sensor away from the wheel, are you actually telling the EDIS that there’s no pulse, so it’s defaulting to 10 deg?


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
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Post by manny » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:55 pm

scimjim wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:03 am
manny wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:58 am
scimjim wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:46 am
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think that (a) if the sensor fails (or fails to pick up a signal) then the EDIS will default to 10 deg BTDC and (b) if it’s connected up the wrong way round, it throws the EDIS and you won’t get a spark?
That is correct...but if a sensor completely fails ...how does the EDIS fire at BTDC ...it must have some reference? or is it hard coded into the module?

As i do get a spark the sensor must be producing a trigger signal for the EDIS to fire the coil packs....it's just odd.
Yes, the EDIS is hard coded to fire at 10 deg BTDC as a “get you home” feature.

My sensor certainly didn’t work when the polarity was reversed and a million google hits suggests this is a common problem?

My point was - when you move the sensor away from the wheel, are you actually telling the EDIS that there’s no pulse, so it’s defaulting to 10 deg?
Ah okay ..i see what you mean...but when i removed the sensor completely i did not get any spark either..as far i recall...i will be going to re- investigate tomorrow..

Ta

Manny



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