Upgrading lap belts to inertia reel SE6a

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Re: Upgrading lap belts to inertia reel SE6a

Post by AJL Electronics » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:25 pm

scimitarcars.org.uk wrote:
Another thing you may be interested in is the rear wing mount that you found behind the rear panel, it is simply a piece of steel bonded into the grp, I'm not convinced it would be much use in an accident and may be the reason Reliant never used it.. Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear.
Yes I am aware of the structure. My view is that any form of restraint has got to be better than a lap belt in the event of an accident. In that event, the load is towards the front of the car i.e. in shear so I would expect it to let go gradually and at least slow down the momentum of a rear seat passenger, even if it finally let go totally.


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Re: Upgrading lap belts to inertia reel SE6a

Post by Corky » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:38 pm

scimjim wrote:can any owners confirm that fixed rear diagonal belts were actually ever fitted? I've never seen any but my 6b experience is limited.
My 6b which was one of the very last didn't have them.


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Re: Upgrading lap belts to inertia reel SE6a

Post by AndyD » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:42 pm

scimitarcars.org.uk wrote:
scimjim wrote:can any owners confirm that fixed rear diagonal belts were actually ever fitted? I've never seen any but my 6b experience is limited.
My 6b which was one of the very last didn't have them.

Beat me to it steve! :lol:

a



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Re: Upgrading lap belts to inertia reel SE6a

Post by Corky » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:32 pm

ajlelectronics wrote:
scimitarcars.org.uk wrote:
Another thing you may be interested in is the rear wing mount that you found behind the rear panel, it is simply a piece of steel bonded into the grp, I'm not convinced it would be much use in an accident and may be the reason Reliant never used it.. Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear.
Yes I am aware of the structure. My view is that any form of restraint has got to be better than a lap belt in the event of an accident. In that event, the load is towards the front of the car i.e. in shear so I would expect it to let go gradually and at least slow down the momentum of a rear seat passenger, even if it finally let go totally.
I can see where you're coming from, but this would also effect the integrity of the original lap belt. My suggestion would be to keep the fixed lapbelt with the shoulder restraint added for an extra bit of protection. If the shoulder restraint fails at least you'll have the lapbelt keeping your passengers on the seats.


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Re: Upgrading lap belts to inertia reel SE6a

Post by AJL Electronics » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:57 pm

The static three point is one length of webbing, so in the event of failure, the lap belt will do nothing anyway. The inertia reel has two points of strength rather than one.


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Re: Upgrading lap belts to inertia reel SE6a

Post by scimjim » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:16 pm

I think Steve meant a fixed lap and additional diagonal.

It appears that Reliant never fitted the 3 point anyway and whilst it's almost certainly safer than a simple lap belt, it certainly isn't legal and should technically fail an MOT (although probably wouldn't).


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Re: Upgrading lap belts to inertia reel SE6a

Post by Corky » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:18 pm

ajlelectronics wrote:The static three point is one length of webbing, so in the event of failure, the lap belt will do nothing anyway. The inertia reel has two points of strength rather than one.
Yes that's my point. As Jim picked up, If you keep the static lap belt then add a secondary shoulder restraint, if the shoulder restraint fails you still have the lapbelt. The one piece method only needs one failure point to be ineffective.


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Re: Upgrading lap belts to inertia reel SE6a

Post by AJL Electronics » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:40 pm

Progress today. Trim panels (badly) cut out, should look fine once I make up a small trim escutcheon.
DSCN3265.JPG
and the vertical link trial fitted.
DSCN3266.JPG


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Re: Upgrading lap belts to inertia reel SE6a

Post by AJL Electronics » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:59 pm

scimitarcars.org.uk wrote:
scimjim wrote:can any owners confirm that fixed rear diagonal belts were actually ever fitted? I've never seen any but my 6b experience is limited.
My 6b which was one of the very last didn't have them.
Workshop manual section R page 11 shows the three point belt fittings.

Page 2 describes the fitment to late cars and all LHD.

Maybe they changed their minds? Liability issues perhaps?


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Re: Upgrading lap belts to inertia reel SE6a

Post by Corky » Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:22 pm

ajlelectronics wrote:Progress today. Trim panels (badly) cut out, should look fine once I make up a small trim escutcheon.
DSCN3265.JPG
and the vertical link trial fitted.
DSCN3266.JPG
Any suspected safety issues aside, it certainly looks a neat job. I can't see any mot man giving it a 2nd look.


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Re: Upgrading lap belts to inertia reel SE6a

Post by philhoward » Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:53 pm

Given that seatbelt mounting are subject to a load test (no specific mention that the have to be chassis mounted - SS1 ones are fixed to the seats!), then if the rear "dimple" mount held, it would have passed type approval. I'll have to dig out the SS1 test results to find a figure though...

As you've mounted the intertia section securely at the bottom, the worst case would be the top mount coming away and losing that amount of slack; the rear passenger would be restrained, just not as much (in extremis).

if fitted to LHD models - any LHD 6a/b owners on here?

MoT test would be a good, hard tug test rather than a full-on load test. Having seen various cars post-crash, the strength of fibreglass does need to be considered - only the condition of the steel plate should be a worry! Spread the load far enough...etc...


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Re: Upgrading lap belts to inertia reel SE6a

Post by Roger Pennington » Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:58 pm

ajlelectronics wrote:Workshop manual section R page 11 shows the three point belt fittings.

Page 2 describes the fitment to late cars and all LHD.

Maybe they changed their minds? Liability issues perhaps?
Worth noting if you're feeling pedantic (moi? :roll: ) that page 2 says "....have provision for......" and the diagram on page 11 qualifies the listing by saying "if fitted" for items 10 to 13.
So it may well have just been a dream......

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Re: Upgrading lap belts to inertia reel SE6a

Post by scimjim » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:03 pm

Unless you can prove otherwise, I doubt that 3 point belts were ever type approved.

There are specific mention of load bearing surfaces in the manual (re corrosion for steering, braking & seat belts mounting points) and the belt mounts must be secured to the "structure" of the vehicle - ie the chassis on a non load-bearing body (hence the straps for the standard front & rear belts).

There is also a specific paragraph for seat mounted belts requiring the seats to be firmly affixed.

Section 5.1 (seat belts)

Condition of all seat belts fitted

Method of Inspection:

Pull each seat belt webbing against its anchorage to see that it is properly secured to the vehicle structure. Note: For seats with integral seat belts, it might not be possible to examine the fixing of the seat belt to the seat.

Reason for Rejection:

a. a seat belt not securely fixed to the seat or to the structure of the vehicle. For example, a fixing bolt not secure

b. for seats with seat belts attached to them; any insecure attachment of the seat to the seat structure

c. for seats with seat belts attached to them; a cracked or damaged seat frame


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Re: Upgrading lap belts to inertia reel SE6a

Post by philhoward » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:07 pm

Sorry - missed that bit about "structure"...

Thinking laterally - does this mean if you attached a strap from the top mount to the chassis, it's theoretically attached (even if the loads aren't in the right direction)?


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Re: Upgrading lap belts to inertia reel SE6a

Post by scimjim » Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:08 pm

yep :?


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