Zinc plating DIY kit project

Have you documented a Scimitar related procedure and would like to share it with others? Pictures are most welcome!
Threads will be locked once posted, so any further questions in the specific forum, please.

Moderators: scimjim, philhoward, erikscimitardemon, Roger Pennington, Lukeyboy46

User avatar
toomanysabres
RIP
Posts: 5381
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:27 pm
Location: Leatherhead
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 88 times

Re: Zinc plating DIY kit project

Post by toomanysabres » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:02 pm

No there are three of them :pc
Or six if you include the watts. :drum:


Now: '62 Sabre 4, '63 Sabre Six, '65 SE4, '00 BMW E38 740i sport.
Prev: '53 ZephyrZodiac, '64 Sabra GT, '68 Elan S3SE, Mk3 Cortina 2000GXL, Mk4 Cortina 2000 Est, 3 SE6a's, 2 SE5a, SE4a Turbo, 1800Ti.
Company: Cav SRi, Cav SRi 130, Honda Concerto 1.6 (yuk)

windy
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:01 pm
Location: Near Shrewsbury
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Zinc plating DIY kit project

Post by windy » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:57 pm

toomanysabres wrote:My home made battery charger produces 17V so the bulb works as a regulator. If the battery is well down it glows brightly and as the battery rises then it dims down. The benefit of the bulb is because bulbs have steep resistance/temperature characteristic. So as the bulb goes dimmer the resistance drops and thus the charging current is maintained. Its a kind of crude constant current device. You can prove that by measuring the resistance of a 48W 12V bulb. You would expect it to be 3 ohms but cold it is very nearly a short circuit. It only becomes that when at full brightness. ie 12V 3Ω 4A.
A bulb would work as a current limiter, but as regards it being a constant current device surely it does precisely the opposite? The more load you apply through the bulbs circuit the more its resistance rises so the output drops? :w
I have to admit on the face of it it looks a like good idea, and I was thinking along the same lines for the plating supply too, but after mulling it over whilst working this afternoon it does exactly the opposite of whats needed :)



User avatar
toomanysabres
RIP
Posts: 5381
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:27 pm
Location: Leatherhead
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 88 times

Re: Zinc plating DIY kit project

Post by toomanysabres » Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:11 pm

The comment was in relation to charging a battery. Not this zinc application. When first connected to a battery the bulb will have V(charger) -V(flat batt) across it. Thus a current is established that lights the bulb. As the battery charges V(batt) increases therefore V(bulb) decreases. As it does so its resistance decreases so I contend that V(less)/R(less) = I(constant-ish). I did say a crude approximation but definitely not ohms law from a simple circuit.


Now: '62 Sabre 4, '63 Sabre Six, '65 SE4, '00 BMW E38 740i sport.
Prev: '53 ZephyrZodiac, '64 Sabra GT, '68 Elan S3SE, Mk3 Cortina 2000GXL, Mk4 Cortina 2000 Est, 3 SE6a's, 2 SE5a, SE4a Turbo, 1800Ti.
Company: Cav SRi, Cav SRi 130, Honda Concerto 1.6 (yuk)

User avatar
tony.idle
RSSOC Member
Posts: 3463
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:31 pm
Location: Kendal, Cumbria
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: Zinc plating DIY kit project

Post by tony.idle » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:19 pm

toomanysabres wrote:No there are three of them :pc
Or six if you include the watts. :drum:
I just knew you'd make it complicated. :D :D


Regards

Tony

Embrace your feminine side - RTFM

RSSOC 2332 since 1981
Past: 2x5A, GTC. Current: SST, Smart, Hymer Motorhome, Rialto, Robin, Bug, MZ Skorpion x2.

windy
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:01 pm
Location: Near Shrewsbury
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Zinc plating DIY kit project

Post by windy » Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:51 pm

toomanysabres wrote:The comment was in relation to charging a battery. Not this zinc application. When first connected to a battery the bulb will have V(charger) -V(flat batt) across it. Thus a current is established that lights the bulb. As the battery charges V(batt) increases therefore V(bulb) decreases. As it does so its resistance decreases so I contend that V(less)/R(less) = I(constant-ish). I did say a crude approximation but definitely not ohms law from a simple circuit.
I was referring to both scenarios. All that putting a bulb in the circuit will achieve is the current dropping as the load increases, which is exactly the opposite of a what a constant current device achieves.
When your battery is flat & needs plenty of charge it will get less, because the bulb glows. When the batteries fully charged & doesn't need much any more it will get lots of volts across it, because the bulb doesn't glow. This isn't good for a charging circuit, and usually the opposite effect is wanted



User avatar
toomanysabres
RIP
Posts: 5381
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:27 pm
Location: Leatherhead
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 88 times

Re: Zinc plating DIY kit project

Post by toomanysabres » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:13 pm

The idea was to keep the charging current going until it was charged and not allowing it to fall off exponentially. Not leaving it connected after full charge. Trickle chargers are for that.


Now: '62 Sabre 4, '63 Sabre Six, '65 SE4, '00 BMW E38 740i sport.
Prev: '53 ZephyrZodiac, '64 Sabra GT, '68 Elan S3SE, Mk3 Cortina 2000GXL, Mk4 Cortina 2000 Est, 3 SE6a's, 2 SE5a, SE4a Turbo, 1800Ti.
Company: Cav SRi, Cav SRi 130, Honda Concerto 1.6 (yuk)

windy
Posts: 1826
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:01 pm
Location: Near Shrewsbury
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Zinc plating DIY kit project

Post by windy » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:17 pm

The bulb in circuit will give you a rising terminal voltage as the battery charges though, which isn't particularly desirable.



Stephenl
RSSOC Member
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:34 am
Location: California
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Zinc plating DIY kit project

Post by Stephenl » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:08 am

OK! Some progress made and the first "I have no idea what I am doing" moment.
Here is my tub, for the record. I'm Ok with this, this bit was fun.

Image

And the supplies (Epsom salts found in the laxative/bandages section, not the bubble bath section as I eventually discovered)

Image

So now to the bit that confuses me. The power supply. Instead of a battery charger I'm hunting in my box of old chargers. Quite a few of the people I read about who had done this are using chargers from old routers and the like and I've got a box full. I also read that 200ma was a likely "good" amount of juice so I picked out this one to get started with assuming that the ma would drop with the drop in voltage.

Image

Now thanks to someone I asked, I am also aware that i=v/r so I was suspecting that the mains voltage here may do something to the output. When I broke out the calculator the confusion began because to make the equation come to any sense it seemed I had to move my ma to amps making 0.8, which when I put it into the equation with 110 volts gave me 0.59 amps, so 590ma. Is that right?
As you can tell I am likely a bit thick and useless, but I am not really! :(

Image

Now my Dad, he IS clever and an engineer and he has also got the same multimeter as me so he told me on skype that in order to measure my miliamp output I needed to move the read lead to the MA hole (as pictured) and turn the dial to the ma setting at the 6oclock position. Seems obvious enough, but when I measured the output of my power supply I got ziltch, just some error message. If I moved the lead to the 10a one next to it and turned the dial to the 10amp one I got a more realistic figure of 0.9 (or something) which when I started adding resisters like bulbs and the like decreases. That seems to make sense at least but i sense I am not quite in the right spot.

Help!


'69 SE5

User avatar
Roger Pennington
RSSOC Member
Posts: 19095
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:43 pm
Has thanked: 107 times
Been thanked: 437 times

Re: Zinc plating DIY kit project

Post by Roger Pennington » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:12 pm

Stephenl wrote: Now my Dad, he IS clever and an engineer and he has also got the same multimeter as me so he told me on skype that in order to measure my miliamp output I needed to move the read lead to the MA hole (as pictured) and turn the dial to the ma setting at the 6oclock position. Seems obvious enough, but when I measured the output of my power supply I got ziltch, just some error message. If I moved the lead to the 10a one next to it and turned the dial to the 10amp one I got a more realistic figure of 0.9 (or something) which when I started adding resisters like bulbs and the like decreases. That seems to make sense at least but i sense I am not quite in the right spot.

Help!
I believe, having looked it up on the web, that the Draper DMM14 only reads to 320mA on the mA scale so if you're getting something like 900 then it's giving some sort of "out of range" message?

No doubt an electrical expert will be along with a fuller answer shortly! :)


....Roger

RSSOC member (since 1982)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Image

"Condition can be bought at any time; Originality, once lost, is gone forever" - Doug Nye

User avatar
tony.idle
RSSOC Member
Posts: 3463
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:31 pm
Location: Kendal, Cumbria
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: Zinc plating DIY kit project

Post by tony.idle » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:14 pm

Trying hard to resist Roger. :D

I assume when you are using the ammeter you aren't connecting it to the two wires from the power unit?


Regards

Tony

Embrace your feminine side - RTFM

RSSOC 2332 since 1981
Past: 2x5A, GTC. Current: SST, Smart, Hymer Motorhome, Rialto, Robin, Bug, MZ Skorpion x2.

User avatar
Roger Pennington
RSSOC Member
Posts: 19095
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:43 pm
Has thanked: 107 times
Been thanked: 437 times

Re: Zinc plating DIY kit project

Post by Roger Pennington » Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:25 pm

We've had enough electrical puns in the past, without you starting again in this current thread....

I'm sure you'll come up with the right answer (I'm not so sure about me! :roll: )


....Roger

RSSOC member (since 1982)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Image

"Condition can be bought at any time; Originality, once lost, is gone forever" - Doug Nye

Stephenl
RSSOC Member
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:34 am
Location: California
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Zinc plating DIY kit project

Post by Stephenl » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:09 pm

tony.idle wrote:Trying hard to resist Roger. :D

I assume when you are using the ammeter you aren't connecting it to the two wires from the power unit?
yes, one lead to each wire. Is that wrong?


'69 SE5

User avatar
tony.idle
RSSOC Member
Posts: 3463
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:31 pm
Location: Kendal, Cumbria
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: Zinc plating DIY kit project

Post by tony.idle » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:14 pm

Very. :hand: The ammeter measures current flowing around the circuit so needs to be in series. Voltage, for your purpose, is of little interest. Connect the +ve wire from the PSU to the appropriate electrode in the bath. Connect one lead from your ammeter to the PSU -ve and the other lead from your ammeter to the remaining electrode in the bath. You will then measure the current flowing and, using your chosen method, you can adjust it until it is what you want. A digital ammeter doesn't really care which way round it's connected so that's one thing less to worry about. :D


Regards

Tony

Embrace your feminine side - RTFM

RSSOC 2332 since 1981
Past: 2x5A, GTC. Current: SST, Smart, Hymer Motorhome, Rialto, Robin, Bug, MZ Skorpion x2.

Stephenl
RSSOC Member
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:34 am
Location: California
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Zinc plating DIY kit project

Post by Stephenl » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:30 pm

OK, I did what you said and started getting a good figure (aroud 250ma) once it was all set up. So I just went for it. Results are good although it took about 4hrs. that might be because my solution is new. Pics of results to follow at the weekend. I'll also update the first post to give a better how to for other who want to try. it isn't that hard and gets good results.

Here is the set up, up and running.

Image


'69 SE5

User avatar
SRF
Posts: 605
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:43 am
Location: Mid Cheshire
Has thanked: 93 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Zinc plating DIY kit project

Post by SRF » Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:25 pm

Have you any plans to passivate the finished articles?


Ray

Reliant Scimitar SE5 1971. Already restored Sunbeam Rapier,Morris Minor,Rover P4, and Triumph Vitesse. I have also restored 8 classic tractors over the past 18 years. My latest project is a Bond Equipe GT4s

Post Reply

Return to “How To Guides”