small sports steering rack

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reliant-reviver
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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by reliant-reviver » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:48 am

Couple of pics here of the "lug" present on the GM uprights, that ain't there on the SS1. These ones have been modified to reduce lock due to brake upgrade hitting the wishbones.
http://chevetteownersgroup.co.uk/index. ... l#msg63114


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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by Roger Pennington » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:03 am

If there was a variety of Chevette ("poverty spec" or whatever) that had a higher-ratio, SS1-type rack, then it seems logical that this would be well-known in the world of Chevette tuning, and that we wouldn't be getting people from there, looking at SS1s as a possible "alterpart"?
philhoward wrote: As for the racks - it's highly feasible that GM had two suppliers (Burman rings a bell for one; possibly Cam Gears the other) so again likely Reliant went to them to make a rack to their specification based on the racks they were making for GM, hence similarities.
That strikes me as a plausible scenario, and is reflected in Keith's note -
myredscimitar wrote:I don't know about the SS1 rack ( never had to look at either of mine closely.... touch wood ), but when I had the 6b I had the rack in and out a few times.

From what I saw it looked like a " modular " design, so I guess made up from a set of standard parts ( pinion housing, rack bar, tube, rods, seals, end cap things etc etc) but with lengths varied to suit the specific car. I can't imagine all those different car models having bespoke rack designs, far too complex and expensive.
Keith
The Se6-on power rack is in many respects a Rover SD1 rack, but with a number of mods made to the design to adapt it to the Scimitar installation, which effectively make them non-interchangeable without quite a lot of work.
So maybe not "bespoke" in the sense of "designed from a blank sheet of paper" but sufficiently different to be not exactly like anything else.


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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by reliant-reviver » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:56 am

In terms of internals it shares more in common with the TVR S series rack.
The TVR rack appears to use the chevette style outer (steel tube / NS housing) with nylon NS rack bush. My reading up suggests it uses Cortina track rods which are slightly longer than the SS1's
Also of note are the lock collars / rack stops are longer on the TVR thus reducing the lock.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=924718


Remember the nylon cups that wear out, think I have found the answer http://www.seriouslylotus.com/suspensio ... ronze-cups


Philip Andrew.
'74 Robin Super Saloon, '84 SS1 1300, '86 SS1 1800ti, '87 SS1 1300
Previous: I lost count around fifty.

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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by pauluspaolo » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:39 am

My SS1 passed the mot last Friday (hooray :)) with the advisory that there was excess play in the steering rack (boo :() - hence I am now on the hunt for a steering rack. I've seen RR's for sale post but the one I wanted has gone unfortuntaely :( I'm going to contact him soon about another I'm interested in but does anyone know where I can get a steering rack reconditioned & how much it might cost (which I suppose will depend on what's wrong with it)?

:)



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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by philhoward » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:46 am

Not sure if it's his speciality but I think my first port of call would be Mark Wilson (as GTE rack guru)?


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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by Corky » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:12 pm

reliant-reviver wrote:Richard, thanks for confirming that! I had forgotten about that response, and dug this thread up instead as it's in a bit more of a suitable location.

Made similar discoveries today in my "rack attack" session.....

If you look closely you may spot that one of these racks is slightly distorted.

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After a bit of straightening of the Chevette rack, I laid it out with an SS1 item for some comparisons.

Chevette rack above in these photos.

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Chevette coupling on the right -

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SS1 Above, Chevette Below

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From top - SS1 Modified for more lock, SS1 stock, Chevette -

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Measurements as follows in the comparison of SS1 and Chevette racks

Travel per pinion turn:
SS1 45mm
Chevette 38mm

Travel as assembled:
SS1 130mm
Chevette 157mm

Max number pinon revolutions possible on rack teeth (un-assembled):
SS1 3.6
Chevette 4.8

Number of turns at pinon from lock to lock as assembled:
SS1 Standard - 2.9
SS1 Modified - 3.3
Chevette Standard - 4.2

So what does this all add up to?
The SS1 rack is quicker, with a higher ratio.
The overall travel is greater on the Chevette rack in standard guise.

The Chevette rack will fit an SS1 without altering the steering geometry. However it will require the longer Chevette flexible coupling to prevent the steering wheel fouling the column shroud.

Fitting a Chevette rack to an SS1 will lighten the steering / decrease the effort. But at the cost of the more direct sporting feel that the original rack gives. Though this may be a fair trade off for those who struggle at parking speeds (and I know a few owners who had to give their SS1's up for this reason)

From a Chevette owner's prospective (or I suppose for a drift / auto test SS1), it is possible to modify the SS1 rack by reducing the overall length of the stops / lock collars. Doing so will give a similar total travel as a standard chevette rack, but in approx 1 less pinion turn.
Wannig in France did modify a rack to do away with the Reliant track rod system in place of self contained (Meganne?) track rods. I believe he had trouble with too much lock causing the tyres to rub, which would suggest that there is a bit more lock to be had out of the SS1 rack than the one I have pictured above.

The construction of the racks is quite different, the Reliant uses alloy housings at either end, and if worn, it does require machining for the fitment of brass bushes into these ( An idea pioneered by owners of the TVR S Series I believe?)
The Chevette track rods are a service item and easily replaced. The SS1 items can be adjusted provided the nylon cups are not worn.

I do have a single example of an SS1 rack that appears to be fitted in a Chevette housing. Whether this is an original item from the factory, or a hybrid I am not sure.
Phil, I think I know the answer to this, but maybe you could confirm it.. :wink:

Can a Chevette inner tie rod be used on an SS1 rack ? e.g. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111215983601


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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by reliant-reviver » Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:29 pm

Woah there, big quote much Steve?!

Chevette tie rod is not a straight fit no. As it's a sealed unit with the ball end encased in the joint, I couldn't tell you whether the tie rod alone is the same, for that you would need to dissect one.
The tie rod must have come off something common. TVR ones are Cortina sourced (and longer than the SS1 type)


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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by Corky » Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:00 pm

reliant-reviver wrote:Woah there, big quote much Steve?!
:lol:
Chevette tie rod is not a straight fit no. As it's a sealed unit with the ball end encased in the joint, I couldn't tell you whether the tie rod alone is the same, for that you would need to dissect one.
The tie rod must have come off something common. TVR ones are Cortina sourced (and longer than the SS1 type)
Ahh right. Thank you.

On my sprint car, the tie rod on the RHS has quite a lot of play in it. Do you by any chance have a spare, or a source for one ? :(


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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by scimjim » Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:02 pm

Are you sure it's the tie rod? Check the nylon cup and spring in the nuckle joint first.


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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by Corky » Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:05 pm

scimjim wrote:Are you sure it's the tie rod? Check the nylon cup and spring in the nuckle joint first.
I've never had it apart, so not sure what I'm looking for...... yet... :lol: . Does anyone have any photos please ?

Are the bits available from the traders ?


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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by scimjim » Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:11 pm

The special nut holding the tie rod on is pinned (you need to drill it out).

Image

Inside is a ball joint, this is pre-loaded by a spring acting on a nylon cup (sacrificial and should wear before the metal ball). Not sure if the traders sell them but TJM may?


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by Corky » Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:23 pm

Cheers Jim, I'll have a go at dismantling it.


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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by geert van hout » Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:39 am

hi all.
i have been reading your comments on and experiences with the SS1 steering rack with great interest. as both SS1 and TVR's using these racks are becoming of age, broken/worn steering racks are getting more common. the problem however is that the racks i need usually have to be LHD, and of both models (SS1 and TVR "S") the chevette lookalikes were typical of the lhd version of this seventies car. you might expect the continental cousin opel kadett c to have had the same rack, but it turns out it didnot. it is just the small number of lhd vauxhall chevette that uses/used this part. needless to say sources have dried up: i just had the last new rack from a supplier in germany and i can't find any of them anymore.
the same goes for the lhd power (and manual) racks for the se6 onward. soon altermative replacements will have to be sorted to keep the cars on the road. has anyone of you tried alternative steering racks, that are plentiful available (also in a lhd counterpart) and relatively easy to fit? i'm obliged.
cheers, geert (scimitar & tvr centre, netherlands)



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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by erikscimitardemon » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:12 am

Geert,

Re LHD se6 onwards - Steffen Hanssen told me about a conversion with a modern(-ish) Ford rack. Maybe you can ask him for details?

Re LHD SS1 - I was told this rack is, in Opel terms, an assembled rack. It combines parts of Kadett C, Manta B and maybe even other (older?) 70-s Opels.


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Re: ss1 steering rack

Post by geert van hout » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:39 pm

i have talked to steffen some years ago and seen that rack. there was quite some work involved in that conversion, and not really a straight forward job (as he admitted himself at the time). as a matter of fact he mailed me the other week he was intending to invert back to the original: whether i would still have one in stock.............
the SS1 rack is closest to the chevette one: kadett b and c won't go ( because of the strange pinion neck they use. manta racks are different in design. one of racks i am playing with at the moment is the american counterpart of kadett/chevette, also chevette: power steering even !! one problem: they are hard to find too.

geert



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