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Post by philhoward » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:22 am

Here’s another train of thought to consider, Dennis - the fuse is actually there to protect the cable, not the end device.

Think about it and it’s correct - how can a 17/35A fuse equally “protect” a 1A pump and a 2.5A motor equally? How does the 50A battery control fuse protect the 2W lamp in the interior light? Answer is it doesn’t. They’re distribution fuses, not device fuses. Device fuses are individual per device, like the one you would have for a stereo.

If you want to fit a smaller fuse, go ahead. As Jim eluded to, don’t forget the startup current peak though.


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Post by Dennis Nicholas » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:09 pm

Agree mostly, but the wiper fuse is only in the wiper (and pump) circuit so is not a distribution fuse (well just ignoring the pump...suspect that was just a convenience afterthought to add it to that particular circuit.) so I feel it ought to protect the motor and its associated wiring.
I'd rather a blown fuse due to over current if a wheel-box is seizing so that you are forewarned of a problem than the burned out motor that has occurred.
Car wiring and fusing is so archaic and simplistic....tis all just money saving.

Brings back memories of my career dealing with many complex electronics equipment on ships to component level.....valves even in the beginning... :wink: . and in later years also taking on the whole ships "heavy electrics" and their myriad of fuse boxes and the different considerations of various ratings for protected circuits and those you can afford to lose. One of the most important considerations of course being the beer cooler in the bar for myself and fellow officers. :lol: At least you had proper technical information in those days.

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Post by Dennis Nicholas » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:38 am

GTC 1980
Progress-:
14W motor tested and fitted. Wiring all reconnected .....tried steering column switch......nothing moved.. :(
Fault could be-: (from previous 16W motor burn out)
1. defect in column switch (but all 3 contacts at once? bit unlikely
2. Poor connection at plug/socket column switch loom to delay unit loom.
3. Poor connection at delay unit loom plug into unit
4 Poor connection at delay unit out plug to loom to motor.
5. plug and connections on motor.

Action - wiggled around switch plug......sometimes it all worked sometimes not..When it was working via delay unit delay, park, slow and fast all working ok..therefore suspect plug/socket .....cleaned pins and sockets as best as possible ....no difference. But noticed while playing with plug that a movement of the out loom to delay unit got things going. Bypassed delay unit by connecting switch plug direct to motor loom and all worked every time......therefore suspect delay unit/delay unit wiring.
Delay unit is fixed with 2 bolts/nuts inside top of trim side panel (by drivers knee) rather awkward to get at lying in foot well. Release panel screw at front top corner and panel could be bent backwards to get at nuts on delay unit securing screws.......delay unit removed and replugged up to test.
Intermittent with wiggling of plugs. Opened up unit and removed printed circuit board (3 screws). This removes the pins and sockets from the plastic casing making them easier to clean. Gently also cleaned the contacts of the 2 small relays. Partial reassembled and plugged up again and still noticed intermittent action but once going motor kept going.
Put all back together and remounted on trim panel and re-secured panel. Still a bit intermittent all actions.
I eventually noticed that when switch activated on slow or delayed intermittent and nothing was happening that the very SLIGHTEST touch of the switch plug to delay unit wiring loom started things going!! And I mean the very slightest touch.
Perhaps I did not allow enough time for the electrical cleaner fluid to react on the pins/sockets???
Packed up for day as now cold, a bit sore and a bit fed up.
Now wondering if it is the delay unit input plug/socket or relay contacts.

At least I know that if wipers don't work then the slightest tap on the trim panel with drivers left knee will get things going again :mrgreen: :roll:

Dennis


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Post by philhoward » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:02 pm

If there’s a crack in one of the solder joints on the PCB in the delay unit, this could give these symptoms.


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Post by Dennis Nicholas » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:35 pm

Oh joy Wed. morning thought I would give a quick try of wipers and they worked in all states first time and continued to do so for rest of day. Blue RTV gasket maker on top wheel-box spacer to seal to body and tightened up. Tried wipers again Thursday and again worked first time every time. Will still bear in mind the lkk (left knee knock!). Now to put all cables back up into access hole etc.

Denis (PS hope some time to connect meter up at fuse to measure current while trying to stall the wheel-box spindle)


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Post by Dennis Nicholas » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:37 pm

Roger Pennington wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:33 pm
Se6/6a used a 14W with a 130 deg gear, so I would have thought it would work equally well?
I wonder why they changed from 14W to 16W for the 6b/GTC?

For Guybetts: ref fitting 14W brush plate to 16W motor:- Having looked at it, it looks as if the spacers under the brush plate to raise the brushes up to be in line with the commutator need to be around 4 to 5 mm? I thought that the original screws might be a bit too short so tried to find out what these screws were. As far as I can see with a thread gauge they are 40 tpi. and the best match seems to be American UNC 4 - 40 so I got some at 3/8th inch to replace the original 1/4 inch (9.5mm instead of 6mm) to allow for the spacers.
However though they seem to screw in reasonably they do not seem to go as far in as I expected...the original screw's diameter measured with a micrometer is 0.109 inch and the new ones are 0.112 inches so hopefully that is what accounts for the stiffness (I want them to be removable if more brushes required in future)
Looking further into the 16W possible refurbish, having rebuilt the brush boxes back onto the base board I was given a quote for brushes from a Southampton firm. They only come in pairs so 2 pairs would be required which came to something like £24! After looking around I have found some slightly larger that will fit the holders better (with just the height needing reducing a small amount). as the tail comes off the end instead of part way down the top face I will drill a small hole in the end of the holder and feed the tail through to be soldered on the holders end tag. I think the original springs will do or maybe can use springs that come with the brushes. These brushes came in at £7.58 for the 4 brushes (free post).
The advantage here is that the original 16W switch is used and being on the front of the motor does not need wires from loom extended and also easier to get at plug to remove from park switch to enable test plug/leads to be put in........I will try and get time to get photos when I fit the brushes. It seems a shame to ditch what seems to be an otherwise good wiper motor (unless of course the commutator windings are too badly burned out!! we shall see (measuring from segment 1 to 6 was 1.1 ohms (minus 0.5 for leads/meter input reading =0.6 ohms.)


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Post by scimjim » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:51 pm

Possibly rationalising stock - the 16W was the GTE rear wiper motor (with the special parking mechanism). A pity I didn’t buy more 16W brush plates when they were available!


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Post by guybetts » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:52 pm

Dennis Nicholas wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:37 pm
For Guybetts: ref fitting 14W brush plate to 16W motor:- Having looked at it, it looks as if the spacers under the brush plate to raise the brushes up to be in line with the commutator need to be around 4 to 5 mm? I thought that the original screws might be a bit too short so tried to find out what these screws were. As far as I can see with a thread gauge they are 40 tpi. and the best match seems to be American UNC 4 - 40 so I got some at 3/8th inch to replace the original 1/4 inch (9.5mm instead of 6mm) to allow for the spacers.
Dennis, I don't recall much difficulty in fixing the new plate back in place, but I can see from my pictures I did use different screws. I was probably lucky in having correct threaded replacements - but then I have an assortment of model engineering bits & bob's, from my grandfather's workshop :)


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Post by Old and Slow » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:23 pm

Bit late to come to the party, but...
For the record, my Kempes Engineers Handbook tells me that 1/8" x 40 tpi is a Whitworth screw thread, and has an effective diameter of 0.109"
Sounds familiar?


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