Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scmarf » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:11 pm

windy wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:02 pm
So your engine is definitely a late one, with dipstick on the side of the block?
I don't have an Essex V6 manual to hand but would guess at nearly 3 thou main bearing clearances are on the limit, possibly caused by the crank polish. I'd be aiming for half that figure. Same with the big ends.
Whether or not thats the sole reason for your low oil pressure I wouldn't like to guess but it certainly will be adding to the issue.
That was my thoughts too but then again, how big are the clearances after 50,000 miles? I figure if I check all main bearings at least that is one thing it cannot be. I was reasonably happy with the big end clearance (book says .0012 to .003 and I was getting .002) but if I can't find anything wrong with mains, I might check the rest of them too.


Honda Jazz
1977 SE6a, previously 1985 1300 SS1
Worlds longest coupe restoration
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Henry Royce: "The quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by gtcse8 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:13 pm

scmarf wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:52 am
And then again, speaking to Martin at 'Car Clinic', he confirms that 'window' followers are compatible with the later (post 60s) V6 engin
IIRTC did`nt Peter Freeman have this problem? OR someone Ooop North


Mark Wilson. See the Beast on youtube under" RELIANT SCIMITAR CONVERSION LOL.,Se5,Se5a, Se6a, Two Se6b`s,1 & 1/2 GTC`s, SST 1800Ti & not a lot of sense

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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by Coupe Racing » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:15 pm

I thought such a problem occurred when later followers are used in an early block
Is this an early or late block ?


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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by gtcse8 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:17 pm

We need to know the engine number please


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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scimjim » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:21 pm

Coupe Racing wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:15 pm
I thought such a problem occurred when later followers are used in an early block
Is this an early or late block ?
I cant remember if Peter had low pressure - I think it was smoke screens as the oil stayed in the head - this a late block though, so definitely not that problem.


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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by gtcse8 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:58 pm

Without a number we can only assume its build date?.
Even if the dipstick is on the side it could have been fitted later, early blocks had the casting but not drilled, just looked at one of mine with the forward sump.

A few years ago I was involved in a warantee claim which involved a very convoluted trail which started with a club trader who fitted a "Reconditioned" engine.

After getting the Federation of Engine Re conditioners involved the owner asked me to check it out.

The "Trader had bought the engine from Another Club trader, who had bought it from an engine supplier who had bought it from a well known re conditioner.

This engine was stipulated for a 1976 5a but had One each Oval and D port heads with the Oval port heads without valve stem seals, and an Oval port inlet manifold fitted with a D port gasket.
Every one of the valves sat lower into the valve pocket than recommended, and even though it was purchased as Un Leaded conversion there were no valve inserts fitted.

Eventually the Original reconditioner asked me to sort it out and paid me direct, even though they had probably made the lowest profit out of the chain of suppliers.

I supplied the correct D port head and manifold and fitted oversized valve heads to counteract the sunken valves, along with new seats for the exhausts.


Mark Wilson. See the Beast on youtube under" RELIANT SCIMITAR CONVERSION LOL.,Se5,Se5a, Se6a, Two Se6b`s,1 & 1/2 GTC`s, SST 1800Ti & not a lot of sense

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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by windy » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:52 pm

scmarf wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:11 pm
windy wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:02 pm
So your engine is definitely a late one, with dipstick on the side of the block?
I don't have an Essex V6 manual to hand but would guess at nearly 3 thou main bearing clearances are on the limit, possibly caused by the crank polish. I'd be aiming for half that figure. Same with the big ends.
Whether or not thats the sole reason for your low oil pressure I wouldn't like to guess but it certainly will be adding to the issue.
That was my thoughts too but then again, how big are the clearances after 50,000 miles? I figure if I check all main bearings at least that is one thing it cannot be. I was reasonably happy with the big end clearance (book says .0012 to .003 and I was getting .002) but if I can't find anything wrong with mains, I might check the rest of them too.
I still think bearing clearances could be an issue. Just got my Essex V6 manual out & says main bearing clearances should be 0.0005 to 0.0018, so if you are near 0.003 (as stated earlier in the thread) thats way too much. There will be over 3 times the amount of oil escaping from those bearings than was intended



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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scmarf » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:34 pm

Problem diagnosed! :)

I measured up the bearing cap diameter and shell thickness. I then added a .003in clearance and it worked out that the journal was nowhere near the factory nominal (about 2.49in). I went out and managed to get a .007in (eventually .008in) feeler gauge EACH SIDE of the journal/upper bearing liner. :shock:

So what have we learnt from this long, painful, expensive exercise?
1) I am rubbish at using plastigage in-situ.
2) Never assume you have the correct parts especially when you are building them into the innermost bowels of your engine. Always check.
3) This forum is a great help in brainstorming problems (in addition, Car Clinic in Darwen Lancashire, Nigel at QRG and Burton Power)

Richard at 'Wards' has now ordered the correct bearing liners but be assured, I will be measuring them :!:


Honda Jazz
1977 SE6a, previously 1985 1300 SS1
Worlds longest coupe restoration
Chief mechanic for offspring's fleet (SE5a, Bond Equipe, Ford Focus)

Henry Royce: "The quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by Coupe Racing » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:09 pm

I trust he won't charge you


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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by philhoward » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:15 pm

Mains or big ends?


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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by b.c.flat hat » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:22 pm

2.491 to 2.500 is mains. Hope the O/D of them is taken into account, Ford recovered blocks that would have been scrap by over-lineboring mains. Best o' luck, Crusty.



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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by philhoward » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:20 pm

Sounds like a recovered line bored block then?


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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by roymck » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:39 pm

roymck wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:05 pm
Some engines have oversized main bearings housings by 15 thou line bored by Ford to reclaim blocks that might otherwise have been scrapped . These need special main bearing shells to fit the oversized block, fit a standard shell you will have problems.
Hope that’s not your problem ?
There are still firms out there that don’t know that some blocks are line bored from new ovesized on the main bearings . Nightmare problem



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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scimjim » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:47 pm

Old shells will have been marked to identify O/S outer dia.


Jim King

SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by gtcse8 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:57 pm

scimjim wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:47 pm
Old shells will have been marked to identify O/S outer dia.
Correct Jim

The "Builder should have checked these before "Assuming" standard. :w


Mark Wilson. See the Beast on youtube under" RELIANT SCIMITAR CONVERSION LOL.,Se5,Se5a, Se6a, Two Se6b`s,1 & 1/2 GTC`s, SST 1800Ti & not a lot of sense

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