Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by Coupe Racing » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:50 pm

Part 3
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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by Coupe Racing » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:39 pm

So I guess the PRV can be eliminated as the pump has been swapped.
The gauge has been swapped.
The oil pick up has been inspected.

2 questions

Are the bearings fitted to the crank the right way round otherwise an oil way will be blocked .
Was there carbon cleaned off inside the block and were all the gallery bungs removed and the oil gallery ways cleaned out as the Essex can suffer in this respect


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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scmarf » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:48 pm

Really appreciate the support on this guys. :hurrah: (and on the phone from Martin North - shouldn't you be working Martin? :wink: )

I have decided to try using my brain instead of my spanners this morning and try and think logically. This comes down to: 'what have I changed?' minus 'what have I checked?'='what I need to check'.
I end up with two things: cam followers and bearings. Although we can all make mistakes, my engine man does this for a living and is well aware of the variants in the Essex plus, I didn't detect anything untoward when putting it together so that goes to the bottom of the list. The cam followers from Burton Power were, however, radically different. See 'Part 2' from 'coupe racing' above and I assumed the metering of oil was now done at the pushrod/follower interface but I think this needs checking out. See http://www.scimitarweb.co.uk/sgwrs/view ... =followers vs https://www.burtonpower.com/kent-cams-f ... v61kx.html.


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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scmarf » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:27 pm

Well I just spoke to Keith at Burton Power. He says the 'window' cam followers are compatible with the old design so it looks like it's a problem with the bearings. Looks like the engine needs to come out so I can start again :(


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Post by Coupe Racing » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:14 pm

Check the main bearing caps are the right way round . If wrong then their upper bearing counterparts will be wrong and the main oil feed to the crank will be blocked , mind you I don't suppose this would cause low pressure....
Otherwise size all bearings to crank to check clearance


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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by windy » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:07 pm

scmarf wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:27 pm
Well I just spoke to Keith at Burton Power. He says the 'window' cam followers are compatible with the old design so it looks like it's a problem with the bearings. Looks like the engine needs to come out so I can start again :(
Have you still got your old cam followers? If so please post up a pic.
Early followers have oil metering discs fitted which I doubt the Burton power "window" type followers contain, although a 1975 SE5a shouldn't have an early engine fitted but who knows what has been fitted in the past.



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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by roymck » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:33 pm

Is the oil pump pick up pipe bolted or fitted with O ring into the pump?



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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by Roger Pennington » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:06 pm

One thing which I'm afraid I've lost track of - you've mentioned "your engine man" a few times - what was his actual involvement in this? Was he essentially just a machinist, who did the block, and the cleaning, and the crank, (and the supply of parts like shells?), leaving all the assembly to you, or did he do more, perhaps building-up the short engine?


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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by philhoward » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:33 pm

scmarf wrote:
Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:19 pm
Collected the bottom end from the engine shop last week. Work done:
* Wash cylinder block (FOC). Hone bores (30) and fit a set of core plugs (FOC).
* Polish crank (25)
* New oil pump (45.80)
* Gasket set (27.43)
* Thrust washers (14.77)
* Bearing set for standard crankcase journal bore with -0.010 crankshaft (169.38)
* Ring set (90)

All prices are plus VAT.
Going back through the thread to see what had been done - it does imply that you DO have a standard bore block (rather than a "reworked" block). One hopes that was cross referencing off the shells that were on the crank originally or was the block measured? Obviously if you've got an O/S block (or shudder, O/S caps on a stock block or the other way round) then there's a sufficent gap to let all the oil out quite quickly.

Standard housing: Housing diameter 67.701/67.721mm 2.6654/2.6662"
Oversize housing: Housing diameter 68.082/68.102mm 2.6804/2.6812"
(Dimensions from Burton Power)


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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scmarf » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:27 pm

So many questions! :)
Coupe Racing wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:14 pm
Check the main bearing caps are the right way round . If wrong then their upper bearing counterparts will be wrong and the main oil feed to the crank will be blocked , mind you I don't suppose this would cause low pressure....
Otherwise size all bearings to crank to check clearance
Yes - everything is correctly aligned. I just got in from the garage. Measured one main and one big-end: Main bearing clearance is just under .003ins. Big-end clearance is about .002ins. Havn't checked the book yet but I don't see 5psi in either of those.
windy wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:07 pm
scmarf wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:27 pm
Well I just spoke to Keith at Burton Power. He says the 'window' cam followers are compatible with the old design so it looks like it's a problem with the bearings. Looks like the engine needs to come out so I can start again :(
Have you still got your old cam followers? If so please post up a pic.
Early followers have oil metering discs fitted which I doubt the Burton power "window" type followers contain, although a 1975 SE5a shouldn't have an early engine fitted but who knows what has been fitted in the past.
Sadly not but I think they were the type with the oil orifice in the oil annulus around the follower. Definitely not the new 'window' type. Engine has the original Reliant number. Car has done about 84,000 miles so almost certainly original.
roymck wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:33 pm
Is the oil pump pick up pipe bolted or fitted with O ring into the pump?
Bolted flange. No O ring.
Roger Pennington wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:06 pm
One thing which I'm afraid I've lost track of - you've mentioned "your engine man" a few times - what was his actual involvement in this? Was he essentially just a machinist, who did the block, and the cleaning, and the crank, (and the supply of parts like shells?), leaving all the assembly to you, or did he do more, perhaps building-up the short engine?
He is a machinist. He measured up all parts and supplied the bearings. I would be surprised if he got that wrong (he was aware of the factory over/undersize options) and my clearance check would seem to exonerate him.

Cam followers are the only thing different that I havn't checked.

Must go - lunchtime :)


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Worlds longest coupe restoration
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Post by gtcse8 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:39 pm

There you are :drum:

Its the cam followers that`s causing it. :doh:

You have the wrong type fitted and MUST revert to the early type with oil GROOVE rather than WINDOW type. :W

Try get the originals back from wherever they are, they are rocking horse poo. :lol:


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Post by Coupe Racing » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:50 pm

But is this an early block ?
I'm not familiar with the car or engine


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Post by scmarf » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:52 am

And then again, speaking to Martin at 'Car Clinic', he confirms that 'window' followers are compatible with the later (post 60s) V6 engine (in line with Keith at Burton Power). :bh


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Henry Royce: "The quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

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Post by windy » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:02 pm

So your engine is definitely a late one, with dipstick on the side of the block?
I don't have an Essex V6 manual to hand but would guess at nearly 3 thou main bearing clearances are on the limit, possibly caused by the crank polish. I'd be aiming for half that figure. Same with the big ends.
Whether or not thats the sole reason for your low oil pressure I wouldn't like to guess but it certainly will be adding to the issue.



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Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scmarf » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:05 pm

Starting Monday I will be taking out all the main bearings and starting from scratch. :bh :cloud:


Honda Jazz
1977 SE6a, previously 1985 1300 SS1
Worlds longest coupe restoration
Chief mechanic for offspring's fleet (SE5a, Bond Equipe, Ford Focus)

Henry Royce: "The quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

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