Joe's 1972 GTE - Wiring loom Repair

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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting

Post by willholderogri » Thu May 10, 2018 7:50 am

Joe. wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 7:43 pm
Hi Will, I Assume you mean the ally one rather than the rags and bubble wrap! It came from the USA and it was quite cheap.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15-Oval-Shap ... SwZjJU4hpR

A bit more info on air filter modification in this post: http://www.scimitarweb.co.uk/sgwrs/view ... 25#p412734

Its on the list of things I will revisit again in the future... !
yes thats it joe thankyou im after the insert and that looks like it will do it
will


1962 mini, bedford CA , KR200. morris 1000, mini pickup.several escorts,ford grandad.ford cortina X2 ,astra, SE5A x 2 ,ford focus.

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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting

Post by efi_sprintgte » Thu May 10, 2018 10:04 pm

I have had a plastic dolly sprint spoiler (not sure where from, was on Don Ross’s sprint car moons ago)

I have never had any ground clearance issues with it, used as a road car with chassis to floor height 100mm


Now runs 75mm off the ground fine, hit many a cone too.


Black beast went through 4 GRP ones in 18 months :lol:


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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting

Post by Joe. » Thu May 10, 2018 11:22 pm

efi_sprintgte wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 10:04 pm
I have had a plastic dolly sprint spoiler (not sure where from, was on Don Ross’s sprint car moons ago)

I have never had any ground clearance issues with it, used as a road car with chassis to floor height 100mm

Now runs 75mm off the ground fine, hit many a cone too.

Black beast went through 4 GRP ones in 18 months :lol:
Cheers, good to know that ground clearance is not likely to offer too many problems on a road car! Out of interest do you notice any performance gains when using it on track?

I've got a spare front panel and did consider fitting the dolomite spoiler to that, getting the fitment right then taking a mould off it... as it would make for a better fit and might solve some of the availability problems for that style of spoiler. For the moment that feels like slightly too much effort!



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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting

Post by efi_sprintgte » Fri May 11, 2018 6:25 am

I’m not convinced I noticed any performance gains, I do love the look.

When I first fitted it I remember the fan light used to come on at speed (when the fan was off) telling me more air was being forced through the rad.. it’s been on the car for about 12 years so it’s hard to remember haha


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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting

Post by MikeyBikey » Sat May 12, 2018 7:45 am

Hi Joe. Pictures are great. Do you any more info on those steering column bushes please. I've looked and there are quite a few on their website. Cheers


Is we sideways yet...

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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting

Post by Joe. » Sat May 12, 2018 12:29 pm

MikeyBikey wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 7:45 am
Hi Joe. Pictures are great. Do you any more info on those steering column bushes please. I've looked and there are quite a few on their website. Cheers
https://www.revingtontr.com/product/209 ... -kit-tr4-6

[Edit] I should probably clarify, the steering bushes that came out were already the uprated type, I know I fitted a set of standard bushes in 2011 and was unipressed by their quality. They were probably on the car for a few months before being upgraded. I strongly suspect the top bush had suffered damage to the locating lugs when beind fitted which probably caused it to have a reduced lifespan, the engine bay bush was killed by by the hot running engine...

I would still strongly reccomend the uprated design of bush they are fair bit better than the cheaper ones in design and execution!



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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting

Post by Joe. » Mon May 14, 2018 1:22 pm

Generating more work for Myself...!

As standard the GTE has a Lucas ACR 17 Alternator producing around 35 amps, For most of the time I've had it my car has had a 55amp Lucas alternator fitted, a nod to the fact that the original was probably ok on totally standard car but once you start introducing additional electrical load it is a bit under spec.

When I fitted the EFI engine I added fuel pumps and modern* coil packs. A short while later I upgraded the radiator cooling fan to a high performance spal. The end result was potentially another 35amps of demand. At this point I started to worry that the 55amp alternator was going to struggle.

With this in mind last year I bought a 100Amp Lucas alternator on Ebay...

Turns out the 100 amp lucas unit is very wide and during a trial fitting was far too tight for clearance against the Lockheed brake servo, The wide body also reduced the amount of movement available when the alternator adjuster was loose meaning that it was nearly impossible to fit a fan belt with a set of alloy rocker covers on!

Here's an old picture of the old 55amp unit which shows how tight the clearance is...

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I put the 100 amp unit to one side and refitted the faithful 55amp one!

In January during discussions about the wiring loom... the alternator question came up again...! Dave suggested going for a Denso type which are a bit smaller and more compact than their Lucas equivalent. I'm looking at needing somewhere between 70-and 90 amps.

An ebay search later:

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£20 For a refurbished unit? Bargain. The paperwork with it suggested it was for a 1.8 Diesel Transit connect / Focus.

Specs:

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I now have an alternator lineup... (The old 55amp on the left, Nippon Denso 90 amp in the middle and Lucas 100amp on the right.)

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Trial fitting the Denso to the Ford bracket, The alignment looks like with some adjustment it could be made to fit...

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So I was going to need to do the following: Sort out a suitable pulley, Modify the mounting bracket and sort out a longer adjuster.... Back to ebay!

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The Indian adjuster bracket arrived, It was completely straight and roughly the right lengh. It was slightly annoying that the slot wasn’t in the middle though!

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Some work with a hammer, a vice and some random bolts to maintain the gap and a curved bracket was produced...

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Trial fitted:

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Looks like this might work! The alternator needs to move backwards on the bracket but the exact measurements wont be known until it can be tried with a pulley!

To be continued....



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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting

Post by Joe. » Tue May 15, 2018 10:25 am

The alternator saga (part two!)

The pulley I ordered arrived and the diameter looked pretty good,

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Unfortunately the diameter of the groove was two wide and I had to spend another £16.20 on another one. So far the £20 alternator has actually cost £76.08 once you add in the extra parts and the postage!

The new pulley is the one the left…

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The output shaft on the Denso alternator is very short only 26mm sticks out and of that only 10mm is threaded.

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With the new pulley on there you can’t actually attach a nut as none of the shaft is visible…

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Fear not there is a plan ( sort of )

I took a load of measurements and sent the shaft off to Dave on the IOW, he deployed his milling / lathe ninja skillz to counterbore the pulley…

Like this:

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He then got mega keen and made a custom nut out of an old boat propeller nut he had knocking about. Its stainless which is a bonus…

The thread inside is from its last application and is not correct for the Denso which needs a M14 fine thread. As this is a funny size and neither Dave nor myself had one so a tap was ordered… (another £12 for the slate)

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The head of the nut was then slimmed down to reduce the weight on the shaft, It also looks a bit more slimline and refined.

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A few weeks later and I picked up the pulley and nut and was ready for a test fitting. Looks pretty good in this photo.

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Here’s a close-up of the nut. There’s enough clearance to get a 10mm socket on the end of the shaft to stop it spinning.

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With the pulley attachment sorted Its time to move on to work out the final position of the alternator.

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After some more measuring. Its clear that The alternator pulley is out of alignment with the waterpump and cranksahaft pulleys by 4mm. The easiest way to sort this would be to take 4mm off the back pulley…. But instead of doing that the plan is to take 2mm off the pulley and 2mm off the bracket. Obviously!

Parts posted to the IOW Again:

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And machined.

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Finally, the last job was to sort out the lower pivot which was a bit of a mashup of metric and imperial sizes. The torx screwdriver had done a pretty good job up to this point.

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A variety of pivot bolt designs were discussed but in the end we went for a tubular spacer, like this:

A long bolt will run all the way through into the existing thread in the alternator which should lock everything up securely.

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Which is about where I’ve currently got to. I’ve not had a final test fit yet as the pulley and bracket are on the island.

At this point its pretty clear why no one really bothers to do this, it would actually be easier to have just spent a load of money getting a refurbished Girling Mk 2b servo… and fitted the 100 amp alternator and lived with not being able to fit alloy rocker covers…!

As a project its sort fitted in around the other refitting jobs, but it has taken quite a few hours of messing about over the course of a couple of months. There’s probably another posts worth on this topic still to come (sorry!)

I promise the next update will involve fitting something shiny… #Magpie
Last edited by Joe. on Wed May 16, 2018 12:47 am, edited 2 times in total.



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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting

Post by philhoward » Tue May 15, 2018 10:34 am

Joe. wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:25 am
I promise the next update will involve fitting something shiny… #Magpie
We like shiny :D

I did always think that whilst possible, it would be a job and a half to convert a modern alternator. Chances are there is something out there that will fit the "ACR" style fixings (and be small enough diameter) but I'm sure it comes with a price tag too...


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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting

Post by gtcse8 » Tue May 15, 2018 5:31 pm

70/75A ACR type alternators as fitted to Barges/boats.

Also have a permanent 14.5v take off to go straight to the battery.

Last price I got, inc correct pulley was £65 delivered.

A lot less hassle.


See the Beast on youtube under" RELIANT SCIMITAR CONVERSION LOL.,Se5,Se5a, Se6a, Two Se6b`s, GTC, SST 1800Ti & not a lot of sense

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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting

Post by Joe. » Tue May 22, 2018 1:11 am

Stainless Bumpers and other shiny things...

This post is far more straightforward... I've bought some shiny stainless (Harrington) bumpers and fitted them to the car! They have actually been sat round for about 2 years, as it did not seem worthwhile fitting them while the paintwork was rough. All the bumpers that were on the car were showing their age and in places had rusted all the way through. The only really nice bits were the overiders which were nos parts when fitted in 2011.

Heres an old photo from 2015 showing the drivers side front quarter, That side of the car took the brunt of last years deer strke and the bumper was bent even further out of position.... :?

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The original GTE bumpers are similar to the Coupé bumpers (1964-70) Which in turn based its bumper design on the Ford Consul Capri front bumper profile!

They were probably made by the same supplier Ford used, Pressed out on Fords tooling before being cut down and rewelded to suit Reliant’s revised designs and then chromed.

The end result was Reliant probably received a fairly consistent bumper design until 5a production ended in 1975.

My new Harrington stainless bumpers are not mass produced they are handmade, each one is effectively a close reproduction of the original made with traditional panel beating. This saves on the cost of tooling which would be prohibitively high. As a result of this production method the bumpers are slightly thinner than the originals and are a bit less rigid. As they are handmade one offs rather than a mass produced product they require a bit of trimming and adaption to get them to fit.

Here’s a picture of the new front quarter:

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This required careful sanding with a flap disc where the bumper meets the overider. I probably took 3mm off The driver’s side and about 8mm off the passenger side, in both cases altering a square end profile to suit the shape of the overider.

I went for some overider rubber to offer a bit of extra protection to the overider from any movement or scratches.


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The gapping is reasonably consistent both sides.

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Front bumpers on I finished the nose with a new set of SCIMITAR lettering for the nose.

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Overview:

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The rear bumper was a bit more difficult to fit, It looks ok from a distance....

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but up close it was clear there was a big problem with the positioning on the passenger side. Which had too big a gap

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Compared to the drivers side which was too tight...

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I spent an entire afternoon adjusting the bumper irons and tightening order and eventually managed to get a reasonable fit, I'm not entirely happy with it and I think it could be further improved but will wait until I'm back on the road...

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While I was there I refitted the fuel filler and boot lock, The Fuel filler cap is brand new from Ceandees who were the original suppliers. (https://ceandess.online/presto-75-caps-accesories)

The Original filler cap was ventilated to allow the tank to breathe but as my car now breathes through a valve I went for a non ventilated cap.


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Maybe the new seal and non venting cap will help stop the fuel spilling out the back under acceleration...

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When playing with the Fuel filler I noticed the cap was a bit close to the body when open

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I ordered some O rings to space it away from the body. Its amazing how many different sizes you can get!

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Fitted:

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Final picture which gives a bit more of an idea of how the bumper gapping currently looks.


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Cheers,

Joe



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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting

Post by Joe. » Sun May 27, 2018 12:37 pm

Project Exhaustion?

I've had the car up on axle stands more or less since it came back from the painters, Its made acsess better for jobs under the car and the working height is a bit better for attaching bumpers and working inside the car.

While spending some *quality time under the car routing a new braided dashboard earth (the one that runs from the roof ariel to the radio and continues all the way down to the chassis.) I couldnt help notice that the exhaust midboxes were still more or less untouched from the Head gasket failiure last year.

At the time I noticed both sides had blown at the point where the input pipe enters the midbox. I made a somewhat half hearted attempt to repair the drivers side with a firegum / aluminum strip kit you get at Halfords... Theory being that I would come back to the issue at some point when the car was on the road, (maybe even using it as an excuse to get a custom stainless system built.)

As it turned out car never really covered any distance and I got distracted by all of the bodywork repairs.

Heres a reminder photo of the blow on the drivers side:

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And an identical one on the passenger side:

http://www.industrialbritain.co.uk/foru ... im/871.jpg

Shortly before the car came off the road due to OMGHGF I had an issue with hot running:

Heres the description of the problem from page 18:
Despite the upgrades to the cooling system (alloy radiator and uprated fan) the engine itself seemed to get very hot, Coolant use was minimal and there was no sign of contamination in either the oil or radiator cap. At the start of June under bonnet air temperatures were reaching staggeringly high temperatures the air temperature sensor measured as high as 79ºc while quing in stationary traffic. The car also developed a habit of cutting out when sat at idle; the revs would decline gradually over the course of a 10-15 seconds and would not respond to the throttle if constantly applied. Blipping the throttle would give a response and if you repeatedly blipped the throttle there would generally be a 'pop' which could be heard in the exhaust or the inlet and it would return to idling normally. This problem could also lag IE you could wait at a set of traffic lights and then drive slowly through a village only to have it affect you a few minutes later...
(link viewtopic.php?f=20&t=5676&sid=0de78543e ... 55#p425885)

You May also remember these pictures of the carbon buildup on the pistons:

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And The strange buildup beneath the inlet valves:

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I never entirely found a cause for the HGF and the state of the midboxes nagged at me until I eventaully went online and tried to find a set of replacements. Scimitar midboxes as far as I can tell seem to be unique to the car, my set were stainless, produced by double SS (who made the entire exhaust system.)

Heres a couple of overview shots of the DoubleS system On the car.

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I needed an exhaust silencer with input and output of 1" 3/4 bore, the pipe configuration needed to be offset - center in order to get the midbox to line up with the existing system. It also needed to be around 14" in length. Theres acturally a fairly limited amount of choice once you consider all these requirements... Theres more choice at 2" and 2.25" but I did not want the hassle of altering the entire system and I'm not sure a 2" system would be optimal in terms of Exhaust gas velocity.

In the end I found a website which offered a silencer which seemed pretty close:

https://www.304stainlessexhaustparts.co ... c-off.html

A tab with it sat open for several weeks while I waited for payday. a speculative £125 later and I had 2 new silencers....

Heres a side by side comparison new with old...

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The current plan is to reuse the input and outlet pipes from the existing midboxes and weld them to the new ones.

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I then got a bit keen and cut the old midboxes open....

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First glance there seems to be more going on in here than expected, annecdotally GTE Midboxes have a reputation for being a bit restrictive but I had no idea they were this bad. I had expected 2 baffles creating 3 chanbers which gas passed through from front to rear.

Instead this is what was inside:

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Ok That last picture is a bit unclear, so heres one with arrow to show the flow of gas through the system...

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The gas enters at the bottom right hand side and passes all the way through to the back of the silencer and enters chamber 1, the exhaust then enters the perforated pipe pressurising chamber 2, presumably the pressure and direction change slow the gas and dampen the sound as the gas bounces around this chamber, Gas then gets pushed into chamber 3, From here it exits via the middle pipe. However the weld around the lower (input pipe) is the joint that has failed this suggests that the entire silencer has been under far too much pressure.

I've done a bit of reading online and it seems that good exhaust design is all about achiving the best flow possible while maintaining a scavanging effect and gas velocity. There is a sweet spot that achives a decent balance between all of these factors. Generally any form or directon change or excess pressure in the system is viewed as a major negative.

Its hard to belive that the restriction on the exhaust did not have and affect on the carbon build up in the engine. Whether its the major factor in the HGF failiure is less clear...

I'll finish with a photo looking through the new silencer...


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That should be a bit less restrictive. Fingers crossed theres enough clearance for it!



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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting - Exhaust Midboxes...

Post by Oldconn » Sun May 27, 2018 6:27 pm

Joe, I found the same symptoms with my head gaskets/valves a couple of years ago, so like you I eventually scrapped the centre boxes and fitted straight-through pipes, while retaining the tailpipe mufflers. The engine immediately ran a lot cooler, and fuel consumption improved about 10%. I have since replaced the SE6A rear mufflers with SE5A ones,thanks to Tanuki, and the noise level is acceptable , with a pleasant deep rumble which could be mistaken for a V8 engine.


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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting - Exhaust Midboxes...

Post by Joe. » Sun May 27, 2018 7:03 pm

Cheers Oldcon, Its nice to know its not just me who's had issues like this. Seems mad that many owners fit tubular manifolds to improve performance only to then restrict any gains by forcing the gas through the restrictive midbox.

I'm not sure what the new type midboxes will do to the exhaust note yet. I imagine it will be a bit louder but I'm hoping it will have a decent tone and wont be too loud. Particularly on long trips.

I thought about replacing the midbox with a straight through pipe as an experiment but am not sure I'd want to do it in the long term as it might be a tiny bit too loud on a car I'm intending to use daily! I love the sound of the straight 6 coupé exhaust so It clearly can work!



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Joe's 1972 GTE - Post Paint Refitting - Exhaust Midboxes...

Post by Pepe » Sun May 27, 2018 10:55 pm

Hey Joe,

Coming from Motorcycles here I made the experience that anything that goes straight through is straight thru loud.
Had to put back original silencers to my bike , the pipes with silencing wool and perforated inner pipe did some job, but to less to kill acustic waves that are allowed to go straight through.

I guess with this midboxes it's going to be quite a bit louder when you can't kill ne noise in the read end mufflers.

One more thing to take care of is that with the less exhaust pressure you'll have you should set (and maybe adjust) the carbs settings.
Less exhaust pressure on Carb'ed engines usually leads to running lean, with all the issue that came with it (hot running, material suffering).

So in order to enrich'n the engine again some larger carb nozzles are usually the consequenz and hence MORE fuel consumption that less.
All depends a bit on hot the ca runs today of course.
I reckon that the straight though midbox could significantly boost your power output, and power needs gasoline in this kind of carbed engines :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Any way nice thread I am reading here...

Are you satisfied with the bumpers? I was thinking to by some for mine especially rear... but what you state (thinner, poor fit) somehow pushes me away from GH bumpers again...

Also very interesting to see the fuel fillers are still made new. Although both, the filler and the lid are currently unavailable (as locked version, issues with cast).
I was wondering where the yellowish stains come from on my freshly polished bumper and fuel swappin OVER it furing fueling up was my first thought... Fuel spilling out is a good explanation though. I'll check the inner gasket on that...


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