SE6a On Road Restoration, repair, modification...

If you have a long-term project and would like to share/document progress, this is for you.

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MickP
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SE6a On Road Restoration, repair, modification...

Post by MickP » Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:28 pm

I have owned this Scimitar for about 18 months now and thought it about time I put it on here as a proper project report rather than the odd request for information or response to questions etc. I have done a lot to it but, as I am sure many of you know, there is always a lot more that needs doing.

So to start things off - yesterday I fitted three additional relays for the main beam inner, dip beam and front fog lamps. I made a relay mounting out of a piece of thin hardwood and made up a wiring loom using proper soldered and crimped terminals which I also fitted with heatshrink. (just follow the pictures - as they say pictures speak more than many words).

Once finished I worked out exactly where to cut and connect into the existing wiring of the Scimitar, I also wrote down instructions to make sure not to cut any wrong wires and in case I forgot where to connect while lying upside down under the dash. My wiring colours mean nothing and are just what I had lying about.

The relays use a common + feed to terminal 30 through a master fuse from the battery and a common earth, the other connections were made as follows:

Dip Beam Lamps -
Cut Blue/Red feed to 13 and 17 on the fuse box leaving a few inches of a tail.
Connect the cut feed wire to 86 on the relay (assuming you have connected 85 to earth).
Connect the fuse box tail to 87 on the relay.

Main Beam Inner Lamps -
Cut the two Blue/White feed wires to terminal 11 on the fuse box.
Connect the two wires to terminal 86 on the relay. (one is thick, one thin - thin is Main beam warning lamp).
Connect the fuse box tail to 87 on the relay (I cut off the thin one at the fuse holder).

Front Fog Lamps -
Split at the fuse holder under dashboard and unsolder end from Red/Yellow feed wire from switch.
Slip fuse holder over wire connected to terminal 87 on relay and resolder end on.
Fit fuse and reconnect to existing other half of the fuse holder.
Connect wire from switch to terminal 86 of relay.

Make sure that you use cable that is heavy enough for the power needed, use proper crimp and solder connectors with good insulators and make sure the connections are tight!

The relay board was mounted below the fuse box on the inside of the plywood panel using screws, small angle brakets and some Araldite. It is out of the way and hidden but accessible by removing only one screw (on my car anyway). I am sure that you can get small relay mounting boards that could be mounted in a simmilar manner to the fuse box and would look quite neat.

Everything worked first time - a testement to working it all out first and writing down simple step by step instructions! So hopefully no more smoke and burning smells on dark winter roads in the fog from now on. The only thing I need now is another double position switch to replace the damaged fog lamp one (or even a single position one from which I can rob the internal parts).

This is the way I did it and it works but you might do/have done it differently. Also, a good tip if doing something like this is to write it all down or/and do a drawing and hide it in with the relay board - it is all very well leaving it in with the cars documents but that won't help on the rainy winter night on the M6 or wherever. It also means that when you or a future owner find the modification years later you WILL have a clue what is going on!


Image
Home made relay mounting.

Image
Modified fuse box wiring.

Image
Relays hidden behind panel.

Michael.
Last edited by MickP on Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.


SOLD: 1978 SE6a Auto.
1997 Ducati 900SS - Last carb. model.
1960 BSA Bantam D7 - more "fun" than the Ducati.
1998 Honda CG125 - great in slow traffic.
1981 Suzuki SB200 2-stroke twin - undergoing rebuild.
Gallery Project
“Technological progress has merely provided us with more efficient means for going backwards.” - Aldous Huxley.

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relay

Post by Stornoway Grey » Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:53 pm

Hmm, interesting Michael. I'm going to show my ignorance now and ask why you made this modification? Isn't a realy just some kind of switch, in which case how does this reduce the risk of 'burning smells' (presumably caused by shorting)? I'd be interested to know because there is often a lot of talk on the forum about adding relays. As far as I know my electrical setup is unmodified and works fine so I dont intend changing anything yet, but it would be useful to understand for future reference (as the scouts say, be prepared!).
Cheers, Adam



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Post by MickP » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:05 pm

Hi Adam,

The light switches on the Scimitar have a fairly high current going through them and are running pretty near their limit. Because of this they produce a bit of heat which basicly shortens their life. Also, as they age and the contacts wear etc. the heat gets worse and so becomes a vicious circle. Fitting the extra relays means that the switch contacts are only switching the current required to power the relay coils - which is not very much.

Reliant fitted a relay as standard to the outer headlamp main beam circuit but still had the full current going through the switches for the inner main and dip beams. The front fogs also had full current going through its switch. Modern cars use relays for just about everything and once they start to wear you simply plug in another.

Michael.


SOLD: 1978 SE6a Auto.
1997 Ducati 900SS - Last carb. model.
1960 BSA Bantam D7 - more "fun" than the Ducati.
1998 Honda CG125 - great in slow traffic.
1981 Suzuki SB200 2-stroke twin - undergoing rebuild.
Gallery Project
“Technological progress has merely provided us with more efficient means for going backwards.” - Aldous Huxley.

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Post by philhoward » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:48 pm

There is your other advantage from using a relay setup - you no longer have the high current passing through the fusebox (a secondary weak point 30-odd years on). Win, Win it must be!


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Post by MickP » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:58 pm

The way I've done it it is still going through the fuses but at least I now have a main fuse - looking at the original drawings it looks like Reliant had a lot of things fed from the brown power wires with no fuses untill later on in the circuits (unless I need to study the drawings a bit better...) which is slightly worying on a 30 odd year old car. But at least there is a lot less to short out onto than on a steel body!


SOLD: 1978 SE6a Auto.
1997 Ducati 900SS - Last carb. model.
1960 BSA Bantam D7 - more "fun" than the Ducati.
1998 Honda CG125 - great in slow traffic.
1981 Suzuki SB200 2-stroke twin - undergoing rebuild.
Gallery Project
“Technological progress has merely provided us with more efficient means for going backwards.” - Aldous Huxley.

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Post by Stornoway Grey » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:00 pm

Sounds like a good modification, and although I understand the theory, I cant say I would know how to do it in practice :oops: My dad was an electrical engineer until he retired to I'll ask him for a practical lesson next time I see him :idea: . Thanks for the info.
Adam



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Post by MickP » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:06 pm

I must be very boared because here is a drawing of the relays and connections for anyone who may be interested.....

Image


(Think I am just trying to take my mind off the pulled muscle in my sholder untill the ibuprofen kicks in).
Last edited by MickP on Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.


SOLD: 1978 SE6a Auto.
1997 Ducati 900SS - Last carb. model.
1960 BSA Bantam D7 - more "fun" than the Ducati.
1998 Honda CG125 - great in slow traffic.
1981 Suzuki SB200 2-stroke twin - undergoing rebuild.
Gallery Project
“Technological progress has merely provided us with more efficient means for going backwards.” - Aldous Huxley.

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Post by MickP » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:37 pm

Just back from Autoglass yesterday (see post about windscreen trim) and now have a new unscratched and uncracked windscreen complete with stainless steel trim fitted! - at last.

Image


Since it is a dry day today decided to grease the trunnions etc. Once the drivers side wheel off the ground discovered a fair bit of play in the track rod end which would explain the high speed wandering and vague steering. Only thing is it passed an MOT four weeks ago with no advisories. I checked it over myself beforhand and there was no play so it has desintigrated within a few weeks - obviously must have been ready to go.

Full marks to whoever fitted the last one as there was plenty of copper grease in there and it all came to bits easily - for once.

New one fitted along with a new rack gator - makes sense to do it at the same time - then all painted black (note the sardine tin to catch power steering fluid).

Image


One thing I remember comming across on another post was that some new track rod ends are a different length - just like mine turned out to be. So some carefull measuring to get the track back to hopefully the original position. Only time will tell if I have got it right.

Image

Just goes to show how things can creep up on you unawares - if it was a car that didn't need regular greasing then it would have got a lot worse before I really noticed it. The fact that it had not long since passed an MOT kind of gives a false sense of security - good reminder that the test is for testable items "at the time of test only"!

Michael.


SOLD: 1978 SE6a Auto.
1997 Ducati 900SS - Last carb. model.
1960 BSA Bantam D7 - more "fun" than the Ducati.
1998 Honda CG125 - great in slow traffic.
1981 Suzuki SB200 2-stroke twin - undergoing rebuild.
Gallery Project
“Technological progress has merely provided us with more efficient means for going backwards.” - Aldous Huxley.

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Post by MickP » Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:46 pm

Just back from a 200 mile round trip to collect a rear axle from Scotscim - thank you very much sir. Going to strip it and rebuild with 3.07 crown wheel and pinion.

Since this is considered a specialist job has anyone got any advice? Better still has anyone changed gears/rebuilt a back end without any professional help - I would be very grateful for any input before I start.


Image

Gear teeth wear looks text book and the oil looks and smells pretty good too so hopefully the bearings might be reuseable.

Thanks,
Michael.
Last edited by MickP on Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.


SOLD: 1978 SE6a Auto.
1997 Ducati 900SS - Last carb. model.
1960 BSA Bantam D7 - more "fun" than the Ducati.
1998 Honda CG125 - great in slow traffic.
1981 Suzuki SB200 2-stroke twin - undergoing rebuild.
Gallery Project
“Technological progress has merely provided us with more efficient means for going backwards.” - Aldous Huxley.

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Post by lozzzzzz » Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:58 pm

Michael,

A friend and I rebuilt a scimitar axle, nither of us had done it before. Its really not as bad as people make out. You'll need a robust bearing puller to get the bearings off the diff, The pinion bearing can be tapped out with a punch. Then there's everyones worst nightmare the hubs, but if you're only changing the diff then you needn't pull the hubs off.

There's plenty of info and picture on the web for guidence when you're setting up the position of the diff and pinion. It might be worth getting the 3.07 from a Scimitar (rather than a jag) as there can be different diameter pinion shafts depending on age.

I've got a 3.07 if you need one.

How's that for a start, I'd be glad to answer any more questions if you've got any, but I'm just as green behind the ears as you.


loz

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Post by MickP » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:06 pm

Hi - thanks for that.

I have got a 3.07 crown wheel and pinion set but don't know what they are from - one of the reasons I wanted a second axle to work on as I don't fancy pulling my only car apart just to have to reasemble it as was!

I have changed wheel bearings on these type of axles before and seem to remember the hubs were a bit of a pig to remove - think I had to put on the puller then use a bit of heat from a heat gun before one of them would budge.

I may get back to you in the future if you don't mind. I think you are right about these sort of jobs not being as difficult as is made out - if you are technically minded and experienced, take your time and don't work with the attitude that "I know it all" then things should be ok (hopefully).

Thanks,
Michael.


SOLD: 1978 SE6a Auto.
1997 Ducati 900SS - Last carb. model.
1960 BSA Bantam D7 - more "fun" than the Ducati.
1998 Honda CG125 - great in slow traffic.
1981 Suzuki SB200 2-stroke twin - undergoing rebuild.
Gallery Project
“Technological progress has merely provided us with more efficient means for going backwards.” - Aldous Huxley.

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Post by philhoward » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:18 pm

If needing to remove the hubs, then the "pipe flange" trick seems to be the (almost) guaranteed way to do it without necessarily resorting to heat and 6" scaffold poles. Burtle and CocoLaBlanc can explain this better (in fact i think Burtle does in one of the latter pages of his 24V conversion thread).


Phil Howard
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Post by Coupe Racing » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:40 am

Dont you have to spread the case to get the CWP out ???

Does anyone fancy doing one 4 me - and I dont mean for free !

Steve


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Post by MickP » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:44 pm

Yes, I believe the case needs to be spread to remove the diff.

Just cleaning the rust off the axle and having a look at the attachment points for the spreader. Will need to make up a device to clamp on then spread. There must be a special "Churchill" tool or something but they will no doubt be like hens teeth or/and very expensive.

Michael.


SOLD: 1978 SE6a Auto.
1997 Ducati 900SS - Last carb. model.
1960 BSA Bantam D7 - more "fun" than the Ducati.
1998 Honda CG125 - great in slow traffic.
1981 Suzuki SB200 2-stroke twin - undergoing rebuild.
Gallery Project
“Technological progress has merely provided us with more efficient means for going backwards.” - Aldous Huxley.

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Post by lozzzzzz » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:14 pm

I didn't use a spreader, The diff came out ok just levering it out with an extension bar, and went back in just tapping it with a hammer. It will no doubt be easier with a spreader but I dont think its a must have.


loz

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