CA18DET SS1 Sprint Car

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Re: DET SS1 Sprint Car Project

Post by Corky » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:06 pm

Coupe' Racing wrote:I would go out with the set up you have for next weekend and come to terms with the car.

Swapping springs etc may break your learning curve of the beast that you are going to pilot , and I recon every run will be a learning curve

Well - thats just me :D
I agree Steve, that's pretty much what I'm doing. At first my concern was not knowing what the rear springs are so I could get an idea of what a particular poundage feels like. If I put some 225's on before Curbs I'd know what 225's feel like and could then confidently add or subtract lbs and understand the differences. However Craig made a good point to me in a PM, that shock adjustment is free and doesn't involve swapping springs.

I can't help it. It's just the way my brain works.... I always think I have to have bench mark figures for everything and then understand the changes I make :roll:


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Re: DET SS1 Sprint Car Project

Post by Coupe Racing » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:21 pm

I and others tried it ,and you end up going backwards and confused . It's your party and we all support you . Wish I was playing too


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Re: DET SS1 Sprint Car Project

Post by Corky » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:47 pm

Time for an update now I've actually had a chance to thrash this thing.

1st Time out. Friday test day at Curbs :-

:D It goes like stink
:D Was easier to drive than I was expecting, but does require concentration.
:D The Wilwood brakes (without servo) are fantastic and inspire real confidence and give great feel through the pedal. OK I was wrong to doubt it :oops:
:D Lap times started to tumble as I was getting used to it.
:? The gears were crunching a bit on the upshift up as well as downshift. It took me a while to realise that the problem was that the revs weren't dropping as quickly as I expected. It didn't want go up to 3rd with around 6000rpm on the go (unsurprisingly). I got round this by being a little lighter on the throttle, but it was pretty tricky to do.
:( Finished the day by boiling it over. I think it'd had enough of my ham fisted efforts for one day :lol:

2nd Time out. Saturday morning test.

:( Discovered that the fuel pressure regulator had snapped its bracket and was swinging around the engine bay. Some artistic use of a dozen cable ties got it secure again.
:D Topped up the coolant and ran it up to temp. All OK, no sign of a boil up.
:? Decided to remove the overboost (dropping off a few horses, no idea how many but possibly 30 or 40 ?). This was to try and remove some of the excess turbo pressure that was keeping the revs up on the upchange.
:D My little turbo mod did the trick and the car was easier to drive. I was about a 1.5 seconds faster than the previous day as I could go a little smoother.
:D By 11:30, I felt I'd done enough and it was time to try and fix the fuel pressure regulator with a more substantial bodge.
:D Went to my favourite motor factors "Wickes" and bought some little brackets. Returned to the car and fashioned a little cradle/bracket to hold the regulator in place. This worked a treat and is still good !

3rd Time out. Curbs Sprint.

:D 1st Practice lap, nice and steady. The car felt good
:cry: Just before 2nd practice Nick Keyser noticed I had a puncture on the rear right :shock: Panic sets in and Nick very kindly lends me a couple of wheels with the same tyre type on them :D :D :D
:? Lots of messing about ensues, and I end up putting my fronts on the rear and Nicks tyres on the front (It was the only way with the mixture of offsets and spacers I had)
:( Finally get the wheels on having missed my practice slot and I line up with the expensive Fiats, only to hear a big clang so I return to the paddock
:D Torque setting on the wheels checked again, and clang put down to the suspension settling down again after having the car jacked up :shock:
:D Finally got out again at the back of the batch of Ferraris and put in a half decent lap IRO 71 secs.
:D Did my 3 timed runs, and all seemed to go well. Though the car had started to oversteer as Nicks tyres (on the front) were in far better condition than mine (on the back)

So what do I need to do to it now :-

1/ I think I'm going to investigate having a dump valve fitted as the excess pressure is keeping the revs too high for too long. With this sorted I'll put the overboost back on. Any advice on dump valves/types/fitting instructions etc. are welcome. It's not something I've fitted before.
2/ The puncture has forced my hand a bit, so on the advice of many compies I'm going to try some Kumho soft tyres. I'm going 195 up front and 205 at the back to start with. These may get bigger as time goes on, but the current budget dictates this. I could replace with the cheaper R888's, but I've found a couple of reasonable deals on the Kumho.
3/ Fit the new shocks I ordered from GAZ, and try the variety of springs I have acquired.
4/ If I don't get the opportunity to do Wiscomb or Gurston in Sept, I'll do a track day at Oulton Park and have a play there with the suspension settings and boost.

It's a great car, and Chris has done a tremendous job putting it together. Thanks for letting me buy it Chris :D

Bloody nails....

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Re: DET SS1 Sprint Car Project

Post by CNHSS1 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:29 pm

DONT use new sprint spec Kumho tyres on a track day, will destroy them!!! your old R888s should be ok though. id have that puncture repaired. As its not for raod use, (elf n safety etc etc) the garage should repair it

glad you enjoyed it :-)


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Re: DET SS1 Sprint Car Project

Post by Corky » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:36 pm

CNHSS1 wrote:DONT use new sprint spec Kumho tyres on a track day, will destroy them!!! your old R888s should be ok though. id have that puncture repaired. As its not for raod use, (elf n safety etc etc) the garage should repair it

glad you enjoyed it :-)
I think I'll take it to EARS. They should know what they're doing with B tyres.

Fair point on the track day use, I'll use the R888's if I can get it fixed...

Absolutely loved it Craig, though my neck is a bit sore today :lol:


Steve
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Re: DET SS1 Sprint Car Project

Post by Corky » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:14 am

Please can one of you knowledgeable people give some help with dump valve selection ?

I had a chat with RR in the paddock at Curbs and he gave me a brief overview on how they work etc. It looks like there are two types. A standard blow-off that vents into the engine bay or a recirculating type that can vent into the air intake at some point (after the AFM ?)

So the question is, which is better for my application. What are the pros and cons ?

This is the suggested configuration :-

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Re: DET SS1 Sprint Car Project

Post by reliant-reviver » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:09 pm

Hmmkay, further to what we were discussing at curbs.
No dump valve equals rapid build up of turbo pressure between turbo outlet and throttle plate (closed) which stall the turbo and will eventually damage it as the gasses try to fight the exhaust and compressor wheels of the turbo, giving that chattering sound, commonly called wastegate chatter by the mis-informed.

This setup also gives an extremely slow decrease in engine speed when off throttle. See this video for example

Image

The cure is to fit a dump valve, which as the name suggest, dumps / vents the excess pressure building up before the throttle plate, out of the main boost pipe. Now this excess pressure / volume of compressed air can go to 1 of 2 places.

Atmospheric.
Venting straight out of the system into the engine bay, or indeed wherever you wish to duct it, though not strictly neccesary unless you are going to be sparying the dump valve in crud all the time and need to have the outlet covered.
Pro's:
only fresh / cool air is drawn into the turbo and inlet temps will remain low when the throttle is re-opened
sounds awesome yo
simplest installation
Con's:
the AFM gets an incorrect air intake reading, believeing a large volume of air is being drawn through to the engine, when in reality it is being shcuked out somewhere further upstream. The result is the engine will overfuel while the dump valve is in play. Though, if you have driven a car with an atmo. dump valve you will know just how quickly the repsond - just as quick as you can change gear basically! The result is a slight increase in fuel consumption, and the ocasional lick of flame out the exhaust.

Re-circulating
This system acts more like a bypass, and re-directs the excess compressed air, back into the inlet of the turbo (via the pipe sitting between the AFM and turbo) in doing so, the metered reading of air drawn through the AFM, is far closer to what it should be / actually correct, and fueling remains unaffected while the air is looping round the system up-stream.
The downside to this is that as the air is compressed via the turbo, then dumped back round again into the inlet, the cycle of air is only going to get hotter through the process.
I've not actually used a recirc. dump valve on a Ti, so couldn't really coment further, I have one on the shelf, which will be going on VTO for when it becomes a frequent road car, as it will be more infitting with usage. They are OE on Subaru imprezzas and other turbo charged cars for the same reason.

Personally I would go for a simple single piston atmospheric dump valve and see how you get on.
Here is the installation on NKY, the vaccum pipe was later plumbed in to the bolt / blank in the inlet manifold, as I don't like putting too many T-peices in the line between the inlet and FPR, plus it was much tidier!

Image

And this is a vid of my bro and father making a hash of driving Curborough back in '07
Bailey dump valve fitted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jUcPLAVqEw


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Re: DET SS1 Sprint Car Project

Post by Corky » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:27 pm

Thanks for your comprehensive reply Phil (much appreciated). That makes perfect sense to me. I'm not too bothered about firing the odd flame out of the exhaust or using a bit more juice, as it's not a road car. I'll start off with simple, and if need be I can always change to a recirculating type valve.


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Re: DET SS1 Sprint Car Project

Post by CNHSS1 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:44 pm

If going for a dumpvalve, id suggest Bailey piston not diaphram.


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Re: DET SS1 Sprint Car Project

Post by Corky » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:03 pm

Best make/manufacturer was going to be one of next questions. So thanks Craig, that answers that one.

Did you use one on Batmobile ?


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Re: DET SS1 Sprint Car Project

Post by reliant-reviver » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:40 pm

Bailey single piston on the one in the video. Diaghram type in the picture.
Bailey or Forge are the names I'd recommend

HKS if your all "Fast and Furious" 8)

Worth mentioning most types are rebuildable, and so a s/h is worth while.


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Re: DET SS1 Sprint Car Project

Post by CNHSS1 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:18 pm

scimitarcars.org.uk wrote:Best make/manufacturer was going to be one of next questions. So thanks Craig, that answers that one.

Did you use one on Batmobile ?
yes, if i still have it to hand you can try it? will have a shufty for it.

bailey and forge are the cheapest of the ones worth having imho.

HKS, Greddy are nicer quality and adjustable, or if you want the best, buy TurboSmart.


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Re: DET SS1 Sprint Car Project

Post by Corky » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:32 pm

Cheers Craig, but I think I may have found a used twin piston Bailey for reasonable money. I just need to work out how I'm going to mount it. It seems such a shame to do anything to Chris's beautiful intercooler pipes :lol:

I'll see I can do..


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Re: DET SS1 Sprint Car Project

Post by CNHSS1 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:55 pm

Weld a stub and repaint the tube imho. Cutting and fittin a T, either ally and silicone or moulded silicone is just more joints to fail or blow off when on max attack.
Sure Eadesy has the paint ref for the red so you can touch it up (you tart! Lol)


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Re: DET SS1 Sprint Car Project

Post by Coupe Racing » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:01 pm

scimitarcars.org.uk wrote:


So what do I need to do to it now :-

2/ The puncture has forced my hand a bit, so on the advice of many compies I'm going to try some Kumho soft tyres. I'm going 195 up front and 205 at the back to start with. These may get bigger as time goes on, but the current budget dictates this. I could replace with the cheaper R888's, but I've found a couple of reasonable deals on the Kumho.
Watch the way the Kumho wear on the edges of the tyres though :shock:


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