SAR restoration - my old girl

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Corky
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Re: SAR restoration - my old girl

Post by Corky » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:12 am

GeoffTE wrote: I'm now debating what to do with the calipers and brake discs. For certain they will all have to be replaced, but QRG seem expensive (£93 each for refurbed calipers). There appear to be cheaper options on-line, but of course I don't know what they're like. Does anyone know of any cheaper (but good) alternatives?
I know a place that will refurb your calipers for approx £60 + VAT each (special deals are available if you drop them off :wink: ). They did an excellent job on mine (see recommended suppliers section). As for discs, you are lucky that you can go for any TR6 ones (except vented, unless you have caliper spacers). Drilled and grooved TRW are about £70 a pair, standard are from £30 a pair.


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Re: SAR restoration - my old girl

Post by GeoffTE » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:12 pm

Made some progress on the chassis over the last week or so and now it's just about done.
First off was to prepare and thoroughly clean the whole frame using an abrasive disc and Marine Clean, a very powerful and potentially dangerous substance. I had already turned the chassis over.

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This took hours and was a filthy job. Next I used a Prep and Prime product, which converts any rust to an inert, protected surface, followed by 2 coats of POR-15 (in grey so that I could see the final coat) that seals and further protects against rust

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Finally a coat of chassis black (2 in vulnerable places) which takes at least 2 days to harden fully. Here's the chassis right way up again

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I'm glad that phase is over. I can easily appreciate why some would have had the chassis sand blasted and galvanised. So much quicker and cleaner

Now, I have need of some advice please
1. You will remember that in an earlier post I said that it looked as if the car had had an impact on the offside front which had had to be corected. Regarding the TOP FULCRUM PIN that is bolted to the chassis and carries the TOP wishbones. Should this be parallel to it's corresponding one on the other side, and does it matter (much) if they're not? As a point of interest I measured mine using two long straight edges and found that they were out by 2 cms in 150 cms ( ie a very small no of degrees difference from truely paralell. Considering this would only effect toe in/out I can't see this as being an issue. What do you guys think?

2 I've started cleaning up the back axle and ordered new poly bushes. The large one for the centre of the Watt's linkage appears too big. I've read the posts about having to enlarge the diameter of the earlier cars to fit the later bush, BUT the new bush is just under 5 cms dia and 5 cms long , whereas the housing it's supposed to go in is less than 4 cms on the O/D and only 4 cms long. So it's not possible to get the new bush to fit. The SE5A I have for parts LOOKS the same,though I haven't taken it apart. I think I've got the wrong bush ??? :? :?

3. The axle looks as if it's been leaking from the pinion seal so this will have to be replaced. After a long search and much cussing I DID find the breather hole and cleared that. Apart from these jobs and painting it up I'm not contemplating doing anything else. I'm not confident taking axles apart and I can't see that I would achieve much by doing so. Am a being stupid not to take it apart and check it out/replace bearings etc? If anything turns out to be wrong I can surely tackle this AFter the car is mobile and a problem arises? What is the gurus advice??

Any advice gratefully received as usual. What a lovely forum this is!! :) :)


Geoff. (5324)
SE5 (SAR), Lotus Elise S2, ( now sold :-( ), 1965 Lotus Elan S2, Ford Kuga 2 AWD
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Re: SAR restoration - my old girl

Post by Coco La Blanc » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:04 am

Geoff,
Standard procedure to use metal spacers between Upper Fulcrum and Chassis to effect correct setup and these were (are ?) available from Club Dealers or you could make them up from sheet steel or Stainless. You need to obtain Workshop Manual for specific measurement details.
Regards,
Viv



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Re: SAR restoration - my old girl

Post by Roger Pennington » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:09 am

I'd agree with Viv that you'd use the spacer shims appropriately under the front and rear fulcrum mounting bolts to achieve the correct geometry. I don't think the misalignment you're refering to will have any effect on toe-in/out, it will instead primarily affect the castor angle. Adding/subtracting shims in equal amounts front and rear alters camber, in different amounts it alters (to a small extent) castor. AFAIK the shims are still available.


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Re: SAR restoration - my old girl

Post by philhoward » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:41 am

Axle - the hardest part of that job is getting the bolts out which should be nice and easy as its all come off once. Check the trailing arm brackets, replace the pinion seal (using the "mark the nut" trick to ensure it goes back exactly the same) and try it; fresh oil and maybe Moly as well and try it.


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Re: SAR restoration - my old girl

Post by MikeT » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:16 am

I can't add much to what's already been said tbh. Leave the axle alone IMO - if you're not confident in what you're doing, then you could well inadvertantly introduce a problem ;)

Shims are £1.43 (+vat each) from qrg.

Re the bushes - I left my Watts linkage bushes as the were, as they weren't perished, and the big centre one looked a bit of a pain to do too.

Nice work - the chassis is looking good.

Mike.


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Re: SAR restoration - my old girl

Post by tony.idle » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:05 am

You might find this useful if you decide to replace the pinion seal:

You need to drill a couple of holes in a piece of scrap 1/4" steel strip so you can bolt it to the flange. Make it long enough to reach the chassis rails so it prevents the flange turning. Mark the nut & the end of the pinion shaft with a centre punch. Remove the flange & old oil seal. Check the seal contact area on the flange for damage - polish it with fine emery / wet'n'dry anyway. Clean out the seal seating: if your seal is metal / leather fit it using a gasket & sealing compound. If it's rubber grease the outside & press it in until it's flush. (no gasket or sealant). Grease the lips with Moly grease. Replace the flange, washer and nut. Tighten the nut until your centre punch marks coincide then a little further until the marks are around 1/8" apart.

The pre-load is set only with new pinion bearings. The collapsible spacer requires incredible effort to collapse initially & significant effort to collapse further than it is: you won't accidentally collapse it too far. The extra tightening of the nut past the marks ensures that is is fully tightened without significantly adding pre-load. The special tool - drilled bar - is essential: the handbrake will not hold & you'll need a decent bar on the socket used to undo / redo the nut.


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Re: SAR restoration - my old girl

Post by GeoffTE » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:29 pm

Thanks everyone for all your advice. Invaluable as always.
I now find that I can't shift the axle oil drain plug at the mo, 'cos one PO has attacked it with a hammer and chisel to try and turn it!!! Grrrrrr!
I had no option but to gingerly try the same tactic, but I'm just adding to the damage. I'm going to try and re-shape the lug end so that I can
ram a smaller size socket on it. If that fails I dunno what!! Can you still get a replacement??


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Re: SAR restoration - my old girl

Post by philhoward » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:36 pm

If you have a welder, weld an old ring spanner to it? The heat will help and if you're draining the oil anyway and possible heat damage won't affect it.

If not, then possibly hacksaw a slot and use an impact driver?


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Re: SAR restoration - my old girl

Post by windy » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:40 pm

If all else fails arc weld a piece of bar, or an old spanner, onto the drain plug. Quench it with a hosepipe immediately after welding when it is still hot, this will give it some thermal shock & hopefully free it. Its worked every time on various stubborn plugs in the past.
edit; Phil you beat me to it!
I think the plugs are a standard gas tapered fitting that can be got for pence from a good plumbers merchants
Last edited by windy on Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: SAR restoration - my old girl

Post by philhoward » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:42 pm

Great minds think alike, Mark :wink:


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Re: SAR restoration - my old girl

Post by Elizabeth's dad » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:53 pm

tony.idle wrote:You might find this useful if you decide to replace the pinion seal:

Thanks Tony, that's one of this year's jobs for me, the points about the extra bit of tightening and the effort required to collapse the spacer are not things I've come across before and clarify a couple of concerns I've had.


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Re: SAR restoration - my old girl

Post by GeoffTE » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:31 pm

On close examination I could see that someone had made a hopeless attempt to fashion a hexagon shape on the drain plug so that it would take a socket. It was a pathetic attempt and nowhere near a true hexagon. I initially tried to re-do it but realised that it would end up rediculously small. Anyway there was about a quarter inch of the male square plug left and iI managed to shape this with a file so that the female square end of a socket could be forced tightly over it. bashed in a socket extension, used a long breaker bar and the plug moved and came out fairly easily. Took me best part of two hours, but it's done and I now only have to find a replacement. Oh the joys of Scimitar restoration!!! (Only hoping it wasn't me that did all that original damage nearly 40 years ago!!!!!) NAH!!


Geoff. (5324)
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Re: SAR restoration - my old girl

Post by GeoffTE » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:56 pm

Well now I really need some advice (AGAIN). Spent 2 days fitting all the poly bushes. All of the front suspension - no problems ( well a bit of a fiddle , but quite do-able). Rear radius arms - no problems. Watts linkage arms, Poly bit - no problems, BUT steel inserts Bl***y impossible. I just cannot get these in despite chamfering the edge , using copious quantities of grease, washing -up liquid, and any other slippy liquid I could find (don't ask!) I haven't had any problems with any of the other steel inserts (lower wishbones, rear radius arms ) Anyway whenever I try to squeeze the steel into the poly bush using the vice, the bush rucks up and balloons out of the arm. It will NOT go back while the steel insert is in place. So I remove the sleeve and start again. I've lost count of the number of times I've done this. I've spent ALL day trying to do these 4 pesky bushes and the air has been BLUE!! I reckon I've probably damaged the bore of the bush by now. In desperation I rang the preferred suppliers to see if I could get standard bushes (not poly) but they don't have them. So, I really don't know what to do next. Does anyone know of a bush supplier that I could try? Or another way of tackling my situation? What if I tried to reduce the diameter of the sleeve? Would this effect the function of the bush? I'm beginning to talk to myself now!!


Geoff. (5324)
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Re: SAR restoration - my old girl

Post by Roger Pennington » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:19 pm

Rather than using a vice, have you tried a long through-bolt with a nut, and a large washer on each end?


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