Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

If you have a long-term project and would like to share/document progress, this is for you.

Moderators: scimjim, philhoward, erikscimitardemon, Roger Pennington, Lukeyboy46

User avatar
scmarf
RSSOC Member
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:25 pm
Location: Lutterworth, Leicestershire
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scmarf » Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:35 pm

scimjim wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:02 pm
Andy, once the diagonal has gone, you usually have a hole in the main chassis too :(
image2.JPG
Hole
image2.JPG (104.05 KiB) Viewed 477 times


Honda Jazz
1977 SE6a, previously 1985 1300 SS1
Worlds longest coupe restoration
Chief mechanic for offspring's fleet (SE5a, Bond Equipe, Ford Focus)

Henry Royce: "The quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

User avatar
scmarf
RSSOC Member
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:25 pm
Location: Lutterworth, Leicestershire
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scmarf » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:18 pm

More photos:
IMG_3385.JPG
pattern and cut-out
IMG_3385.JPG (96.14 KiB) Viewed 436 times
IMG_3392.JPG
folded
IMG_3392.JPG (87.45 KiB) Viewed 436 times
IMG_3367.JPG
in place
IMG_3367.JPG (128.43 KiB) Viewed 436 times
IMG_3373.JPG
welded
IMG_3373.JPG (158.73 KiB) Viewed 436 times
IMG_3398.JPG
painted
IMG_3398.JPG (106.19 KiB) Viewed 436 times
After painting I slopped as much waxoyl and undershield as I could in the crevis and gave it a blast of 40psi air. When I emerged for tea and Kathy said I looked like a Dalmation, I knew I had done enough.


Honda Jazz
1977 SE6a, previously 1985 1300 SS1
Worlds longest coupe restoration
Chief mechanic for offspring's fleet (SE5a, Bond Equipe, Ford Focus)

Henry Royce: "The quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

User avatar
scmarf
RSSOC Member
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:25 pm
Location: Lutterworth, Leicestershire
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scmarf » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:19 am

So there I was reading Slice 283 when I noticed in 'Bunch of 5s' that Jim had experienced fuel vaporisation problems which he put down to the proximity of the fuel hose to the radiator top hose. This got me worried as ours is just short of touching! :shock:
IMG_3436.JPG
hose touching
IMG_3436.JPG (76.6 KiB) Viewed 393 times
Discuss ...


Honda Jazz
1977 SE6a, previously 1985 1300 SS1
Worlds longest coupe restoration
Chief mechanic for offspring's fleet (SE5a, Bond Equipe, Ford Focus)

Henry Royce: "The quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

User avatar
AJL Electronics
RSSOC Member
Posts: 7476
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:49 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 208 times
Contact:

Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by AJL Electronics » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:53 pm

In my opinion fuel vaporisation is very unusual, but like the catchword "osmosis" for microblisters, it is the first word uttered whenever the engine misbehaves in warm weather.


Yes, we can mend your Scimitar!
Order your Scimitar parts any hour of the day at http://www.classicmicrocars.com (member's discounts).

Fancy a holiday in Gael, France? http://www.ianrhu.com

There is no point trying to teach a pig to sing. It doesn't work and it annoys the pig.

User avatar
scmarf
RSSOC Member
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:25 pm
Location: Lutterworth, Leicestershire
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scmarf » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:10 pm

Sooo ... Found out why the water pump was leaking ... and it was my fault :oops: .

There is a rib on the back plate which fouls the edge of the block on certain (early) engines. When I took it off it was obvious and I remembered QRG-Nigel mentioned this the last time I replaced the pump on the SE6a. I got away with it on that but forgot to check on Ben's car :oops: .

I used a Dremmel and file to nibble it away and re-installed with a bit of silicone sealant for good measure. Sadly I was unable to check it last night as a lower hose started leaking so I decided with a new water pump and new radiator, it was foolish to persist with the original hoses so I ordered a new set in silicone this morning. Well at least now everything has been replaced I know nothing else can go wrong :w .
IMG_3427highlighted.JPG
problem
IMG_3427highlighted.JPG (93.46 KiB) Viewed 362 times
IMG_3428.JPG
witness
IMG_3428.JPG (97.85 KiB) Viewed 362 times
IMG_3429.JPG
solution
IMG_3429.JPG (159.77 KiB) Viewed 362 times
IMG_3434cropped.JPG
fitted
IMG_3434cropped.JPG (131.42 KiB) Viewed 362 times


Honda Jazz
1977 SE6a, previously 1985 1300 SS1
Worlds longest coupe restoration
Chief mechanic for offspring's fleet (SE5a, Bond Equipe, Ford Focus)

Henry Royce: "The quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

User avatar
scmarf
RSSOC Member
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:25 pm
Location: Lutterworth, Leicestershire
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scmarf » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:13 pm

AJL Electronics wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:53 pm
In my opinion fuel vaporisation is very unusual, but like the catchword "osmosis" for microblisters, it is the first word uttered whenever the engine misbehaves in warm weather.
QRG-Nigel was also sceptical. As far as I can tell, I have a standard configuration here. At least with a filter just above, I should be able to see if there is a problem.


Honda Jazz
1977 SE6a, previously 1985 1300 SS1
Worlds longest coupe restoration
Chief mechanic for offspring's fleet (SE5a, Bond Equipe, Ford Focus)

Henry Royce: "The quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

User avatar
scmarf
RSSOC Member
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:25 pm
Location: Lutterworth, Leicestershire
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scmarf » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:48 pm

scmarf wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:42 pm
...... The only criticism I would make is that, in common with most remanufactured radiators, there is no drain plug. Reliant decided it was a good idea. Would it really be that much more expensive to put one in? As it turned out today, the new water pump had to come off for a strip and rebuild and without a drain plug, I had to faf around with undoing hoses to drain the system. :bh
Spoke to QRG-Nigel today. He said there was some concern that if a drain plug was over tightened, it could damage the rad as aluminium is pretty fragile. In support of this, when I was draining the old fuel from the petrol tank today I noticed the drain plug went into a hexagon spout so one could react the torque on the plug without putting shear load into the tank itself.
drainplug.JPG
plug
drainplug.JPG (113.81 KiB) Viewed 327 times
.... or maybe it was just easier to weld a nut in. :?


Honda Jazz
1977 SE6a, previously 1985 1300 SS1
Worlds longest coupe restoration
Chief mechanic for offspring's fleet (SE5a, Bond Equipe, Ford Focus)

Henry Royce: "The quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

User avatar
scmarf
RSSOC Member
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:25 pm
Location: Lutterworth, Leicestershire
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scmarf » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:16 pm

Well I eventually got it started :D - but there is a problem :( .

Tried starting it yesterday but the fuel pump didn't want to play :( so I removed it, checked the diaphragm and then noticed the valves wern't responding well to me sucking and blowing down the hoses. Eventually they seemed to loosen up and a bench test was successful so it went back on the car.

Today, I started it for real quite easily. It was showing about 40psi oil pressure at 2500rpm but within 4 or 5 minutes it was down to about 5psi :!: so I called it a day at that point. Checked for leaks - none. Checked oil level - midway between marks. Temperature was normal or maybe hotter but fan had not come on.

Any ideas :?:


Honda Jazz
1977 SE6a, previously 1985 1300 SS1
Worlds longest coupe restoration
Chief mechanic for offspring's fleet (SE5a, Bond Equipe, Ford Focus)

Henry Royce: "The quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

User avatar
scimjim
RSSOC Member
Posts: 35911
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Gloucester
Has thanked: 113 times
Been thanked: 822 times

Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scimjim » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:58 pm

That oil pressure is low (cold and hot) - without trawling back, what’s been done to the engine?


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

User avatar
scmarf
RSSOC Member
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:25 pm
Location: Lutterworth, Leicestershire
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scmarf » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:15 pm

Bores honed, new rings, new bearings, crank polished, new oil pump, existing camshaft re-ground with new springs and followers. Using Millers Running-in oil.

Engine man just said it could be oil 'frothing'. Don't know why.


Honda Jazz
1977 SE6a, previously 1985 1300 SS1
Worlds longest coupe restoration
Chief mechanic for offspring's fleet (SE5a, Bond Equipe, Ford Focus)

Henry Royce: "The quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

User avatar
philhoward
RSSOC Member
Posts: 24070
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Staffs, UK
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 528 times
Contact:

Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by philhoward » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:17 pm

Air leak on the pickup is my first thought - assuming the new pump is OK of course.


Phil Howard
Scimitarweb Forum Admin
SS1 1600 Rooster Turbo; Sabre Mk1.5, Sabre Mk2
Previous: SE5/5a/SS1 No.1/SS1 Rooster/SS1 1800Ti/SE5a 24 Valve
http://www.ss1turbo.com
Never try and argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you based on experience.

User avatar
scmarf
RSSOC Member
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:25 pm
Location: Lutterworth, Leicestershire
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scmarf » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:54 pm

philhoward wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:17 pm
Air leak on the pickup is my first thought - assuming the new pump is OK of course.
Good point.
Could also be something clogging the filter but everything was thoroughly cleaned - unless its a bit of pick-up tube gasket (Filter was from QRG).

I think my best bet is to leave it to cool overnight and see if I can reproduce the symptom. If yes, then it must be temperature related (oil too thin?). If no, then off with the sump and replace pump with the original (which wasn't too bad) and thoroughly check pick-up pipe, and if no change, maybe oil filter (clutching at straws by this point).

I seem to recall some issues with new oil pumps and relief valves on this forum. I'll have to do some digging.


Honda Jazz
1977 SE6a, previously 1985 1300 SS1
Worlds longest coupe restoration
Chief mechanic for offspring's fleet (SE5a, Bond Equipe, Ford Focus)

Henry Royce: "The quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

User avatar
scmarf
RSSOC Member
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:25 pm
Location: Lutterworth, Leicestershire
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scmarf » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:36 pm

Just done some research on oil filters (on this forum). Although using genuine Ford EFL90 filters seems to be considered the bomb proof option, 'Mann' Filters (the ones QRG sell and is fitted to the SE5a) seem to be well thought of too so sadly, it looks like the easiest option to tracking down my virtually non-existant oil pressure on my new-built engine is a blind alley :(


Honda Jazz
1977 SE6a, previously 1985 1300 SS1
Worlds longest coupe restoration
Chief mechanic for offspring's fleet (SE5a, Bond Equipe, Ford Focus)

Henry Royce: "The quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

User avatar
Coupe Racing
RSSOC Member
Posts: 7091
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:51 pm
Location: Nr Telford - Shropshire
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 84 times

Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by Coupe Racing » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:14 pm

I agree with earlier suggestions
If the seal between the pump and strainer is poor then the oil pressure will be low .
Is the gasket fitted between the pick up pipe and the pump ?
Are there any fractures in the pick up pipe?
How much oil did you put in , is it the correct dip stick


Blessed are the Cheese makers

Better to be an hour early than 1 minute late

User avatar
scmarf
RSSOC Member
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:25 pm
Location: Lutterworth, Leicestershire
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Ben's (an emotional quandry) 1975 SE5a

Post by scmarf » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:03 am

Coupe Racing wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:14 pm
I agree with earlier suggestions
If the seal between the pump and strainer is poor then the oil pressure will be low .
Is the gasket fitted between the pick up pipe and the pump ?
Are there any fractures in the pick up pipe?
How much oil did you put in , is it the correct dip stick
Thanks for the suggestions :)
1) I was aware of the importance of getting a good seal from the strainer to the pump inlet (and indeed all other aspects of the build - I didn't want to wreck an expensive engine rebuild because of rushing anything) so everything was fine with the pick-up and the gasket is in place.
2) I put in 5 litres and it is midway between Max and Min on the stick which, according to the capacity in the manuals, is about right.

Filter My research above and my trust in QRG leads me to conclude the filter is good.
Blockage It cannot be a blockage upstream of the gauge because the block was machine washed and all passages checked by me prior to the build, the sump was also washed and the oil was straight from a can.
Gauge My engine man suggested it might be the gauge itself. Unlikely as it was working fine before but that was 4 years ago! Might try putting my spare gauge on tomorrow (which also may be inaccurate of course).
Pump My chief suspect now is the pump because it came from a non-Scimitar source and - as we know - an identical pump may fit but operate completely differently if the PRV has a different rating. Apart from the filter, it is the only piece of hardware that is not original except shells and rings (even the camshaft is the original reground). So my plan is to drop the sump tomorrow and re-install the old pump. This will also give me an opportunity to check the pick-up tube.

More later :evil:


Honda Jazz
1977 SE6a, previously 1985 1300 SS1
Worlds longest coupe restoration
Chief mechanic for offspring's fleet (SE5a, Bond Equipe, Ford Focus)

Henry Royce: "The quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

Post Reply

Return to “Project Progress”