Hazard lights wiring route

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drcdb15
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Hazard lights wiring route

Post by drcdb15 » Thu May 17, 2018 3:47 pm

Not really specific to the Scimitars, in fact it's arisen on my Webster... but are there any MoT experts on here who could answer this?

The chap who built my Webster has wired the hazard lights so they operate only with the ignition in the auxiliary position or the drive position. In the off position the hazard lights don't operate at all. Does this have any implications for the MoT ?

Thanks.


Chris
MB61; formerly 1978 SE6A 3.5 V8; 1986 SE6B 2.9 EFi.

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scimjim
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Hazard lights wiring route

Post by scimjim » Thu May 17, 2018 4:11 pm

4.4.2 Switching
Hazard warning lamps must operate using only one switch and with the engine or ignition switch in both the on and off positions.

But pre 86 reg don’t need hazards.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
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Hazard lights wiring route

Post by peter freeman » Thu May 17, 2018 4:21 pm

If fitted however the MOT man may decided that they have to work as required by the law.



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Post by scimjim » Thu May 17, 2018 5:31 pm

If they don’t need to be fitted, they won’t be tested.

6 Vehicle ‘first used’ dates – Application of test criteria

Usually you'll be given the vehicle details as part of the registration process. This will usually include the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date. If the ‘first used’ date is known, you should only use defects applicable to the vehicle’s age.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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Hazard lights wiring route

Post by peter freeman » Thu May 17, 2018 6:04 pm

Tell my MOT man that.



drcdb15
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Post by drcdb15 » Thu May 17, 2018 6:42 pm

Hmm, not sure I wanted to hear this :(

It's been through loads of MoTs before with no apparent mention of this. It's a Q plate, and the V5C says "was registered and/or used. Manufactured date unknown." Date of first registration is shown as 1st May 1997.

All the MoTs to date have been issued by the garage local to the builder, and they also did some work on it, so they knew the car and the owner, and I imagine there was a bit of leeway given as they knew him. However, that was near Sheffield, and my MoT place down here doesn't know the car at all (they do however know me and MB61 - will that help?!) and now with the new tightened MoT regs coming in, quite apart from the likelihood that they've never seen a Bond Bug never mind a Webster kit car, I am a little concerned they will be unduly inflexible in interpretation of the rules :(

Maybe I'll just put it in and see what they say. I think it's unlikely they'll declare it unroadworthy and impound it on the spot (famous last words).


Chris
MB61; formerly 1978 SE6A 3.5 V8; 1986 SE6B 2.9 EFi.

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scimjim
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Post by scimjim » Thu May 17, 2018 6:45 pm

Is it really that difficult to run a new supply wire to the switch?

Current manual regarding Q plates date of first use:

3. Vehicle ‘first used’ Dates - Application of Test Criteria
NT’s will normally be provided with the vehicle details as part of the registration process. This will usually include the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date. Where this information is available, the NT should only use Reasons for Rejection applicable to the vehicle’s age.
However, in cases where this information is not available or incorrect, the NT should determine the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date as follows:
a. Its date of manufacture, if the vehicle was originally used without being registered in GB (e.g., an imported vehicle or ex-HM Forces vehicle), or
b. Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to be treated as follows: For emission purposes only, all these types are to be considered as vehicles first used before 1 August 1975. For all other testing purposes they are to be considered as being first used on 1 January 1971, or
c. In any other case, the earlier of either:
 Its date of first registration, or
 The date six months after it was manufactured.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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scimjim
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Hazard lights wiring route

Post by scimjim » Thu May 17, 2018 6:49 pm

peter freeman wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 6:04 pm
Tell my MOT man that.
my quote is from the draft manual that comes into force on 20th May 18 but for a long time, the computer system shouldn’t allow an RfR if the age of the vehicle means it’s not testable.

Current manual:

Recording Defects
a) Reasons for Rejection
The Reasons for Rejection within this Manual are selected using the MOT Testing Service via a component-based menu system.
The User will first select the vehicle component that is required. Then, via on-screen selection, select the appropriate Reason for Rejection.
Some Reasons for Rejection are not accessible due to, for instance the testable age of the vehicle.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

drcdb15
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Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:28 am
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Hazard lights wiring route

Post by drcdb15 » Thu May 17, 2018 7:45 pm

scimjim wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 6:45 pm
Is it really that difficult to run a new supply wire to the switch?
Have you *seen* the wiring in a Bug? !! :lol:

However, it seems from what you say it has to be treated as pre '86 so the hazards aren't a test item.

The other thing is, he wired in some sort of alarm, and an engine cut-out, AND a kill switch hidden in by the battery. No one, but NO-ONE was ever going to steal *his* Bug !!

Delving around the dashboard (I use these terms fairly loosely, you understand...) I discovered some little black box tucked away with a "Cosmic" sticker on it - this is iirc the alarm thingy. Now when the car came to me, I was told 'he's got this alarm thing, it's wired in with the hazard switch', the result being the hazard switch is apparently 'on' when it's actually off. The builder is in his 80s, and now not answering my emails - not that he ever did, his wife gave me the only answer I ever got - so I doubt I can get any reply now about what he did.

The wiring he did, I must say, seems to be top notch, all per the original loom, good connectors and so on, and everything works. But he has added little touches like a tow hitch on which the lights weren't working properly - took me best part of 2 days to find the earth wire wasn't connected inside the car (most of 2 days spent rewiring and rebuilding trailer and lighting board...), presumably as a safety measure as it seems he never actually towed anything. Similarly there are spurs which seem to be for rear fog lights, though he has these already integral in the VW lights he used. I think he was building in all sorts of flying leads and extra points for future plans and upgrades that he never got around to doing, so there are a few red herrings in there. The sad thing is he doesn't seem to have documented his little extras.

Anyway, the hazards seem to be tied up with this alarm gizmo, and since the little car runs fine I am very reluctant to go digging around too deeply in case I just end up immobilising it entirely! :w


Chris
MB61; formerly 1978 SE6A 3.5 V8; 1986 SE6B 2.9 EFi.

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