SS1 CVH Silicone hoses

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Re: SS1 CVH Silicone hoses

Post by Oaksey » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:07 am

How late? I may still have the ones from my C reg as I remember they were in perfect condition. Ill have a look at the weekend


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Re: SS1 CVH Silicone hoses

Post by reliant-reviver » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:33 am

C reg will be the early setup. Just been back through Roger P's thread to have a look at the auto choke carb hoses as well, as I don't think I've ever fiddled / replaced / observed them in person!

In short (I think) we need the following to allow for the later CVH cars to have a full set offering also:

NS chassis pipe to multi-stub "arch pipe"
Arch pipe to waterpump inlet
Arch pipe stub to heater (regular silicone - measurement only?)
Arch pipe stub to expansion bottle base (measurement only?)
Arch pipe stub to auto choke housing.
Auto choke housing to heated inlet manifold port.

Sound about right? If there's a parts diagram I can't find it!


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Re: SS1 CVH Silicone hoses

Post by scimjim » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:38 pm

Presumably G97 had that setup originally (1400)? Don't think I have that multistub pipe on the shelf any more though. Tidier to fit the other pump and the thin bore solid pipe.

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Re: SS1 CVH Silicone hoses

Post by Roger Pennington » Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:00 pm

If I search, it's possible I might still have the first two rubber pipes hanging around in the garage, from my re-plumbing (though, if I do, they will be a bit crusty), but not the others.

You may have missed one (or more than one?) - the pipe from the thermostat housing to the heater matrix. Based on both my car, and that of Tony Penfold (his is slightly later than mine) we both have underbonnet water valves for the heater. However I think our pipe runs are (from memory) slightly different. Mine looks like this (which is how it's always been, in my ownership, I simply replicated the existing setup):

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Re: SS1 CVH Silicone hoses

Post by Roger Pennington » Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:47 pm

scimjim wrote: Tidier to fit the other pump and the thin bore solid pipe.
Tidier? I'd say that's highly debatable? :)

I'd stress that I'm not a customer for this deal, as mine are already sorted, but I thought the idea was to produce a "straight swap" set of late-type hoses?

Trying to view it from the point of view of a potential purchaser, if the proposal on offer involved:
A. using the early hoses
B. plus a waterpump change - with I suppose the associated cambelt (and presumably tensioner) and alternator/engine mount?,
C. plus, what have you done about the autochoke on your second pic, Jim?,

then I probably wouldn't be interested, I'd be back with building my own set?


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Re: SS1 CVH Silicone hoses

Post by philhoward » Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:48 pm

Manual choke on a 1400?


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Re: SS1 CVH Silicone hoses

Post by Roger Pennington » Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:51 pm

philhoward wrote:Manual choke on a 1400?
Ah, you maybe right! :)

Choke will need addressing though... :wink:


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Re: SS1 CVH Silicone hoses

Post by scimjim » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:15 pm

Yep - G97 has never had an auto choke in 1400/1600/twin carb guise.

I don't see how anyone could think that the pipe with 5 connections can look tidier than the early setup?

No need to change that type of engine mount, you can get water pumps that come out at the right angle AND have the rear connection.

I've never changed the cambelt type when changing water pump types (tensioner doesn't have teeth, so doesn't need changing) - aftermarket cambelts, camwheels and water pumps don't specify tooth shape and if they are a different profile you'd need to change the crank wheel too.


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Re: SS1 CVH Silicone hoses

Post by philhoward » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:11 pm

Only CVH with a different tooth profile is the 1800 (I-CVH) which has a completely different water pump to match. There may be one of the late 1600i Sierra CVH engines with another combination but I've not seen one close up.


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Re: SS1 CVH Silicone hoses

Post by Roger Pennington » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:58 pm

scimjim wrote:
I don't see how anyone could think that the pipe with 5 connections can look tidier than the early setup?

No need to change that type of engine mount, you can get water pumps that come out at the right angle AND have the rear connection.

I've never changed the cambelt type when changing water pump types (tensioner doesn't have teeth, so doesn't need changing) - aftermarket cambelts, camwheels and water pumps don't specify tooth shape and if they are a different profile you'd need to change the crank wheel too.
Re the first point we'll have to agree to differ, I think the later type looks much neater, and doesn't require a custom hose with a moulded joint. To my mind a far superior setup.

As for the engine mount, your second photo appears to have the earlier mount? (at least as far as I can see)?

Finally, as far as the belt is concerned, I've always been brought up to believe it's bad practice to retension timing belts, particularly if changing components working off them, regardless of the tooth profile. Also that if changing the belt, you should really change the tensioner (I know it doesn't have teeth, but it has a bearing which wears out). So I would change the belt/tensioner. As the old saying goes, "you make your own luck!". :)


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Re: SS1 CVH Silicone hoses

Post by reliant-reviver » Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:19 pm

Sorry for the delay in bringing my handbag to the discussion!

I'm with Jim on the early setup looking neater / tidier. But I might struggle to call it superior.
In my experience, the heater seemed to work better with the later arrangement, which makes some sense, as the draw for the heater circuit is directly into the main large bore pump inlet, rather than being shared on the under manifold branch pipe, with the flow from the heated inlet manifold.

The other issue with the early setup, is the branched hose is now obsolete. Last I checked no dealer had them new, and whilst they do seem to be of a good material that doesn't deteriorate, there is a steady loss of those that get chewed into by errant alternator belts. My stock of good S/H units has probably halved (from double figures) in the past few years.

To switch from a later setup to an early one, does require a considerable amount of parts as already mentioned, and I would also add that it's not ideal to run the (later setup) larger dia Vee belt pulleys with the early hose arrangment as the belt and hoses are perilously close. I'm well aware that mine just about chaffs in usage on the band clamp that is protecting it at the water pump stub. The poly-vee pulleys do seem less common also, so not easy to track the parts down if you don't have such stocks at your disposal as you or I.

Anyway.
I'm starting to wonder about the auto-choke on the later setup, had overlooked that it was a 1600 only feature (which would explain why I have not come across one - had 1400's but never a late 16). Would a pair of simple straight pipes of correct bore and length with 90 degree bend at one end suffice? Or does it take a more complex route that require specific bends?

It could be a trial and error process to get that right if so, and I don't have a car to trial them on at my disposal. Hmmm.


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Re: SS1 CVH Silicone hoses

Post by scimjim » Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:32 pm

reliant-reviver wrote:The other issue with the early setup, is the branched hose is now obsolete. Last I checked no dealer had them new, and whilst they do seem to be of a good material that doesn't deteriorate, there is a steady loss of those that get chewed into by errant alternator belts. My stock of good S/H units has probably halved (from double figures) in the past few years.
I'm probably down to single figures too :D I have one in SS, so I presume QRG stocks them?

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Re: SS1 CVH Silicone hoses

Post by reliant-reviver » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:14 pm

Pipe n hose Jim. Pipe n hose.
I will never interchange the 2 terms.

Wad referring to the early 3 branch multi hose as obsolete.


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Re: SS1 CVH Silicone hoses

Post by scimjim » Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:22 pm

Ah - got a few of those too :-)


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SECURE DRY STORAGE FOR YOUR SCIMITAR

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), 1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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Re: SS1 CVH Silicone hoses

Post by reliant-reviver » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:40 am

Just a quick message to say I've got some NOS rubber hoses coming from GW (at quite a cost i hasten to add!) to act as patterns for the later setup. This will then allow the later setup to be catered for in the main. The intricacies of the auto choke may cause problems to be honest so I do think this may be left to the individual to sort if require on their car.

Been a bit of a delay on getting on with this so apologies to anyone who was patiently waiting, rest assured the ball is now once again rolling.

In the mean time I have placed an order for a few full sets for the early CVH system. My hoses are looking worse each time I lift the bonnet, so time to bite the bullet and prevent things going awry with the coming season of sprinting.

If anyone wants a set do speak up and I'll put your name to one.


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Previous: I lost count around fifty.

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