Front suspension assembly - is something missing here?

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larrylamb11
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Front suspension assembly - is something missing here?

Post by larrylamb11 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:57 am

My SE5a hasn't been on the road in many, many years and had been the subject of much amateur rebuilding before being laid up. I'm in the process of refreshing pretty much everything and keep finding the results of poor or incorrect assembly of bits.... split pins missing, loose bolts, incorrect component order etc. silly stuff.
My latest task is to strip and reassemble the lower trunnion bolts to get the clearances and assembly right (bolts were turning in trunnions previously) and in the process of doing that I discovered this -

Image

As you can see, the shock absorber bushing is too narrow for the mounting bracket. It's the same top and bottom - there is clearly far too much clearance. Either the shocks have the wrong size bushes in or there are spacers missing. Does anyone know what the shock bushes should measure? do I have some distance pieces missing here?

Given the mistakes I have found elsewhere, I am questioning the whole assembly of the front suspension and there are FOUR substantially thick washers that were sandwiched between the the wishbones and the lower shock mount plate where the bolts go through - are these supposed to be there? if so, should they be sandwiched between the wishbone and plate or be against the plate to increase the fastener bearing area? (so essentially as a washer under the shock mount plate, held by the four nuts and bolts).

Maybe these thick washers are in the wrong place entirely and should actually be the shock bush distance pieces?

Can anyone point me to any detailed exploded diagrams showing front suspension assembly so I can check how it goes together please?



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scmarf
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Front suspension assembly - is something missing here?

Post by scmarf » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:14 am

Hi Larry.
Havn't noticed any excessive gap at the shock absorber bolt/bracket before but regarding the four washers: They are NOT on our SE5a (although they could have been omitted by a previous owner :roll: ) but ARE on the SE6a. They slightly lower the ride height so maybe a tweek for the introduction of the SE6a. There are washers under the nuts underneath to spread the load a bit too (nyloc nuts).


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Front suspension assembly - is something missing here?

Post by scimjim » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:35 am

parts manuals here

I think earlier cars had spacers? (item 50 - not on diagram)

dampers are simply the wrong spec fittings - you can just use spacers.


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Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
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Front suspension assembly - is something missing here?

Post by larrylamb11 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:38 pm

scimjim wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:35 am
...
I think earlier cars had spacers? (item 50 - not on diagram)

dampers are simply the wrong spec fittings - you can just use spacers.
Aha! That's very helpful, many thanks. I had looked at the parts diagram picture and couldn't see the spacers - hence asking the question - but not read the parts list and seen item 50.... I think that probably clears that up. My chassis number is in the 45.... range, so the spacers are correct and look to have been correctly fitted between the damper bracket and lower wishbone.

I'll do as you suggest and just add some spacers to mount the shock absorbers.



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scmarf
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Front suspension assembly - is something missing here?

Post by scmarf » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:25 am

scimjim wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:35 am

I think earlier cars had spacers? (item 50 - not on diagram)
So do we think they should be on our SE5a (1975)?


Honda Jazz
1977 SE6a, previously 1985 1300 SS1
Worlds longest coupe restoration
Chief mechanic for offspring's fleet (SE5a, Bond Equipe, Ford Focus)

Henry Royce: "The quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

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Front suspension assembly - is something missing here?

Post by scimjim » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:43 am

the parts manual says up to 93X3501.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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Front suspension assembly - is something missing here?

Post by scmarf » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:05 pm

Thanks Jim. Ben's SE5a is later than that so no spacers required. Strange that they appear on my SE6a (1977) though.


Honda Jazz
1977 SE6a, previously 1985 1300 SS1
Worlds longest coupe restoration
Chief mechanic for offspring's fleet (SE5a, Bond Equipe, Ford Focus)

Henry Royce: "The quality remains long after the price is forgotten"

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Front suspension assembly - is something missing here?

Post by scimjim » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:32 pm

Yep, 6 series had them too.


Jim King

Current: SE5 (8Ball), TI SS1 (snotty), 1600 SS1 (G97), 1600 SS1 (C686CCR), 2.5TD SE5a (diesel 5a), 6 x random other SS1s.
Previous: SE5, 3 x SE5a, 2 x SE6a, 3 x SE6b, GTC, 2.9i GTC, 3 x 1600 SS1, 1300 SS1, Mk1 Ti Sabre, Mk1.5 CVH Sabre
Chief mechanic for: 1400 K series SS1 (Megan3), 1400 CVH EFi SS1 (Grawpy), Sabre/MX5 auto (The Flying Broomstick),
1300 SS1 (Number One) & Sarah's coupe.
CURE THE FAULT - NOT THE SYMPTOMS

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Front suspension assembly - is something missing here?

Post by Dennis Nicholas » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:03 pm

I have a penciled in note in my workshop manual fig.2 IFS showing washers item 41 and Fig 5-lower wishbones showing washers item 16 "spacers bracket to wishbone" and the note says "spacers between bracket and wishbone for POWER STEERING ONLY........I have them noted as 0.13 inches (by my measuring if I remember) . Lower wishbone bush renewal.... Para B8.0 (b) says "For power steering an interface spacer is fitted at each fixing"
each fixing referring to the 4 fixings, 3/8 UNF, bracket,damper mounting, to wishbones bolts (26 -32 lbft tightening torque)
The non power steering version does not have the spacers therefore.

Dennis


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Front suspension assembly - is something missing here?

Post by Dennis Nicholas » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:15 pm

Damper.....the inner metal bush of the damper bush should be fixed solid against the bracket with the damper mounting bolt so that the rubber bush outer metal bush, push fit in the damper eye, and the damper eye are free to move by distorting the rubber which is bonded to the inner metal bush and outer metal bush........of course you may have plastic/nylon bushes.
So you should only put small diameter washers/spacers either side of the damper inner bush to pinch up the inner metal bush against the bracket. As said above that is a wrong damper end/bush.

Dennis


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