Steering

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Steering

Post by TrevorG » Sun May 05, 2019 12:26 am

He's right you know....much more severe, but anyone remember the pop hotrod that wheelerdealers did....it was almost amusing how the suspension flexed the steering geometry because it was out of alignment.



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Steering

Post by TrevorG » Sun May 05, 2019 12:28 am




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Post by spegru » Tue May 07, 2019 4:21 pm

https://www.racingaspirations.com/bump-steer/ gives a good explanation
I think there may be a very small change in bump due to steering arm length but probably no more than you would get with a tracking adjustment
Obviously there is a change in steering angle at the track rod end ball joint but the crucial thing seems to be whether the inner ball joint and the upper/lower arms are in the same plane. Since the end of Steering arm is quite a bit forward of that anyway it's in a different plane in any case. Once the steering turned, everything is changed at the track rod anyway so I would hazard that its a negligible effect

Incidentally I just measured a manual SE6 rack vs a ubiquitous Mk2 Escort one - measuring between the inner ball joints as this seems the most critical: Approx 32" for the Austin 1800 LHD derived SE6 one vs 24" for the Ford one.
I suppose the SE5 one will be shorter?

Pic shows 3 because I have two spare Escort items
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Post by CarlosVanDango » Tue May 07, 2019 5:55 pm

so is the SE6 rack from an Austin 1800 LHD :?: i thought thats was the SE5 rack :?:

i will measure my SE5 and see what size that is, but it's still on the car

would be good if something popular like the mk2 escort rack could be made to fit



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Post by philhoward » Tue May 07, 2019 6:10 pm

SE5/a rack is almost an 1800 LHD rack, upside down.

Mark Wilson will know the close relatives for the SE6/a rack - either SD1 or Princess?


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Post by scimjim » Tue May 07, 2019 6:25 pm

Designed around an early SD1 design according to Mark.


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Post by gtcse8 » Tue May 07, 2019 7:07 pm

Scimitar PAS rack is a wider version of the VERY EARLY Burman supplied SD1.
SE6 manual rack is based on wedge princess.
SE5a rack is based on LHD Austin 1800/2200.

This quest for a cheaper, more readily available rack will rumble on for even more years than it already has.


Mark Wilson. See the Beast on youtube under" RELIANT SCIMITAR CONVERSION LOL.,Se5,Se5a, Se6a, Two Se6b`s,1 & 1/2 GTC`s, SST 1800Ti & not a lot of sense

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Post by spegru » Tue May 07, 2019 7:17 pm

Seems I stand corrected on the SE6 manual rack origin



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Post by CarlosVanDango » Tue May 07, 2019 9:07 pm

gtcse8 wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 7:07 pm
This quest for a cheaper, more readily available rack will rumble on for even more years than it already has.
has this been covered before? just thinking of any racks that might have been rejected so far



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Post by rebel alliance » Tue May 07, 2019 9:39 pm

I think the quest was solved about 20 years ago 😊



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Post by DARK STAR » Tue May 07, 2019 9:40 pm

Mark - thinking from this side of the Channel, does that mean that a normal rhd Austin 1800 rack would make a lhd SE5/a rack ?


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Post by CarlosVanDango » Tue May 07, 2019 10:07 pm

rebel alliance wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:39 pm
I think the quest was solved about 20 years ago 😊
what fits then?



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Post by gtcse8 » Wed May 08, 2019 8:10 am

DARK STAR wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:40 pm
rhd Austin 1800 rack would make a lhd SE5/a rack ?
Not quite Chris
The Austin uses Longer connecting arms and they were "Thread Rolled" at the track rod end, so if you cut them down to the correct length the TRE cannot be made to fit because the rod diameter is thinner :!:
Thread rolling is cheaper and quicker than using a Die to cut a thread and the material is thinner as the rolling displaces the metal upwards to produce the thread, so a smaller threaded TRE would need to be found that fitted the smaller replacement thread. :shock:
Unless you had a few thousand pounds/euros worth of machinery to replicate the original manufacturing method it`s just not that easy. :w

You would need an Original Reliant rack, or an Original set of track arms.

There are also at least Two ratios of Austin 1800/2200 racks available, the common one is the same ratio as a Reliant rack and the very early Austin rack has One and a bit more turns, so is a lighter rack.
Last edited by gtcse8 on Wed May 08, 2019 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Post by spegru » Wed May 08, 2019 12:47 pm

I watched that WheelerDealers episode. (BTW that link only provides a preview rather than the whole thing but you can find it easily enough)

Unfortunately though as usual they skimmed over the detail - such as the evidently loose steering shaft. I'm pretty sure that the explanaion of what causes bump steer was not correct, otherwise what happens to bump when rack joints move left and right while steering? Most bump steer corrections I've seen consist of moving the rack or steering arm ball joints upward or downward.
But possibly the most interesting/relevant aspect that they skimmed was the narrowing of a Jag front subframe - since that presumably would also require the shortening of a steering rack. If one can be shortened, could one be extended too?



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Post by TrevorG » Wed May 08, 2019 1:58 pm

Yeah, I thought that about missing out the steering. I wouldn't shorten the rack, just the arms if long enough..a lot easier!

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