Motorcraft Distributor help please!

Discuss and exchange views and technical information about our cars.

Moderators: scimjim, Lukeyboy46, erikscimitardemon, Roger Pennington, philhoward

V6pushfit
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:05 pm
Location: Near Cambridge
Been thanked: 1 time

Motorcraft Distributor help please!

Post by V6pushfit » Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:16 pm

In short, I had electronic ignition that failed and it was a type with a six toothed trigger wheel below the rotor arm.
To put on lumenition/points/a n other I’m having to change the base part with one with a cam (lobes) on as on mine the lobes were lathed round to fit the trigger wheel.
Simple it so I thought....
The advance stamped on mine was 13 deg. I found a 12.5 deg one so near enough...
BUT the weight spring mounts that hold the inner end of the spring are further out on the 12.5 deg one AND two 11.5 deg ones I have lying about.
This means the springs aren’t tight or tensioned so the rotor will flap about before any advancing.

Could anyone help with:
a) A 13 deg unit with spring mounts near the centre
b) Advice who may have such a thing

I would buy a unit or swap for scim parts I have, either way you’ll be very happy!!!

Here’s a photo, the left is the 13 deg taken off with rounded off lobes and both spring mounts visibly nearer the centre. On the right what the others look like with spring mounts further away so they won’t tension the springs:
3F7CDF18-CDD5-4E84-A611-8F812C4DCDC0.jpeg
3F7CDF18-CDD5-4E84-A611-8F812C4DCDC0.jpeg (327.92 KiB) Viewed 652 times
A view of the removed unit with its trigger wheel off and no bloody lobes!
48118114-295F-4FAB-8F7E-CE793E41A889.jpeg
48118114-295F-4FAB-8F7E-CE793E41A889.jpeg (326.82 KiB) Viewed 652 times
Any help greatly appreciated.

Ps I’m not changing the dizzy - no pencil drive clip so I’ll lose it in the sump and it’s a day to get the manifolds and sump off!!!


still trying to hit the bullseye blindfold

User avatar
philhoward
RSSOC Member
Posts: 25825
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:41 pm
Location: Staffs, UK
Has thanked: 78 times
Been thanked: 707 times
Contact:

Motorcraft Distributor help please!

Post by philhoward » Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:31 pm

I thought the clip holding the pencil drive was oil pump end?


Phil Howard
Scimitarweb Forum Admin
SS1 1600 Rooster Turbo; Sabre Mk1.5, Sabre Mk2
Previous: SE5/5a/SS1 No.1/SS1 Rooster/SS1 1800Ti/SE5a 24 Valve
http://www.ss1turbo.com
Never try and argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you based on experience.

rebel alliance
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:20 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Motorcraft Distributor help please!

Post by rebel alliance » Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:32 pm

The thicker spring should not be tensioned when at rest ,only the thin one.



V6pushfit
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:05 pm
Location: Near Cambridge
Been thanked: 1 time

Motorcraft Distributor help please!

Post by V6pushfit » Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:54 pm

Both springs are very loose - the difference in the mount positions is about 2.5mm so no hope of getting initial tension. Bending the outer mount wouldnt take up enough slack either.

The clip is missing from the oil pump end !

The best way forward is a replacement unit with the onboard mounts (lugs) so any pointers sir spares knocking about?


still trying to hit the bullseye blindfold

rebel alliance
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:20 pm
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 69 times

Motorcraft Distributor help please!

Post by rebel alliance » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:16 pm

Try asking on facebook page couple of breakers on there



V6pushfit
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:05 pm
Location: Near Cambridge
Been thanked: 1 time

Motorcraft Distributor help please!

Post by V6pushfit » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:23 pm

I don’t do Facebook, this is a part you can’t see and difficult to describe or understand unless you know what it is!

I’m hoping someone will have one or know someone who rebuilds them...


still trying to hit the bullseye blindfold

V6pushfit
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:05 pm
Location: Near Cambridge
Been thanked: 1 time

Motorcraft Distributor help please!

Post by V6pushfit » Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:21 pm

Done! Drifted out the ‘post’ and swapped it for one from a spare which had the cam still on it. Tapped it in place and it’s rock solid.
13B9CD22-A3EC-4070-94DC-B08D3246B87E.jpeg
13B9CD22-A3EC-4070-94DC-B08D3246B87E.jpeg (370.75 KiB) Viewed 503 times
What is interesting (at least to me) is that with the Essex V6 it’s sometimes not possible to turn the distributor enough for timing without the vac unit hitting the thermostat housing. Doing what I’ve done it’s possible to alter the angle of the post (and therefore rotor arm) very easily to keep the distributor in its range of turn. So no more taking the distributor out and turning one notch!


still trying to hit the bullseye blindfold

gtcse8
RSSOC Member
Posts: 2313
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:11 am
Location: Steeton, Yorkshire Dales
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 164 times

Motorcraft Distributor help please!

Post by gtcse8 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:03 pm

Be aware that those parts were Silver Soldered at the factory, they MAY come loose over time.

As for the advance chamber hitting the thermostat housing, there is more than enough scope/wriggle room to just lift the bottom gear from the camshaft and re align the rotor arm.

IF the dizzy will not go back into place then the oil pump/pencil shaft just needs turning slightly to align the hexes.


Mark Wilson. See the Beast on youtube under" RELIANT SCIMITAR CONVERSION LOL.,Three Se5a, Se6a, Two Se6b`s,1 & 1/2 GTC`s & not a lot of sense
EX SST 1800Ti

scimitargtc
RSSOC Member
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:05 am
Location: EAST YORKSHIRE UK
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Motorcraft Distributor help please!

Post by scimitargtc » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:43 pm

I should have a dizzie if you still need bits,,,, I know where it is so easy to get at.


1979 se6a auto pas 3.0v6 (unnamed) sold after 22 years 2019.
1998 Range Rover 4.6 v8 auto (unnamed)
2016 Nissan QashQai 1.6 Tekna CVT dci ("Quentin")
2019 Skoda Cititgo MPI SEL Greentech ("Clyde")
Space for 5 more! Money for none!!

V6pushfit
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:05 pm
Location: Near Cambridge
Been thanked: 1 time

Motorcraft Distributor help please!

Post by V6pushfit » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:03 pm

Thanks, any idea what the advance is?
One advantage of my swapping was I retained the 13 deg (=26 deg) advance and as I mentioned the spring lugs were further to the centre than standard.


still trying to hit the bullseye blindfold

scimitargtc
RSSOC Member
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:05 am
Location: EAST YORKSHIRE UK
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Motorcraft Distributor help please!

Post by scimitargtc » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:28 pm

Mine are 12.5 [image]
image.jpg
image.jpg (284.29 KiB) Viewed 369 times
[/image]


1979 se6a auto pas 3.0v6 (unnamed) sold after 22 years 2019.
1998 Range Rover 4.6 v8 auto (unnamed)
2016 Nissan QashQai 1.6 Tekna CVT dci ("Quentin")
2019 Skoda Cititgo MPI SEL Greentech ("Clyde")
Space for 5 more! Money for none!!

User avatar
Old and Slow
RSSOC Member
Posts: 1213
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:37 pm
Location: East Berks
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 70 times

Motorcraft Distributor help please!

Post by Old and Slow » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:35 pm

Don't know if this helps, but according to Marcel Chichak's TDC Engineering chart of Lucas Distributors, the 31D6 dizzy on the 3-litre Scimitar engine was set as follows:
0-300 rpm 0 deg Advance
300-550 rpm 1.5 deg Advance
550-1500 rpm 9 deg Advance
1500-3000 rpm 13 deg advance
These figures are in addition to the static advance.
These are of course points on a curve of auto advance with rpm, assuming the vacuum advance is disconnected and the tube blocked off.
Given that your engine has been "worked on" these basic figures can only be a starting point.
Rolling road beckons?


Philip Needham
Ashley-bodied TR3; '54 Ford Consul; '55 AC 2-Litre Saloon;'65 850 Mini; '70 Ford Zodiac MkIV; XR3i
'81 911SC Targa, '64 Sabre Six

User avatar
Roger Pennington
RSSOC Member
Posts: 20304
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:43 pm
Has thanked: 168 times
Been thanked: 561 times

Motorcraft Distributor help please!

Post by Roger Pennington » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:10 pm

I wasn't aware that the Essex ever used a Lucas dizzy, I thought they either used Motorcraft or Bosch? The full advance curves are in the workshop manual (and they are on here somewhere).

Here they are (from the Se5/5a manual)

Image


....Roger

RSSOC member (since 1982)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Image

"Condition can be bought at any time; Originality, once lost, is gone forever" - Doug Nye

User avatar
Old and Slow
RSSOC Member
Posts: 1213
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:37 pm
Location: East Berks
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 70 times

Motorcraft Distributor help please!

Post by Old and Slow » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:19 pm

I wish the Sabre Six Manual had this level of detail, you lucky thing! :?


Philip Needham
Ashley-bodied TR3; '54 Ford Consul; '55 AC 2-Litre Saloon;'65 850 Mini; '70 Ford Zodiac MkIV; XR3i
'81 911SC Targa, '64 Sabre Six

roymck
RSSOC Member
Posts: 1132
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:33 am
Location: Dorking Surrey
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Motorcraft Distributor help please!

Post by roymck » Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:37 pm

:!:
Roger Pennington wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:10 pm
I wasn't aware that the Essex ever used a Lucas dizzy, I thought they either used Motorcraft or Bosch?
Both of my Pre 500 SE5,s had Lucas Distributors , handy items as they have a vernier screw for fine timing adjustment.



Post Reply

Return to “General Technical Discussion”